Yokohama Avid S33d assessments

Just to give me a rough idea, what was your average MPG with the Yokos and now with the Michelin Savers?

 

FWIW, I have two Prius IIs and the first came with Goodyears, the second with Yokohamas. Looking at the treadwear ratings I was disappointed to get the Yokohamas on the second car. However, with same tire pressures I do think the car with the Yokohamas rides better (softer; not as much harshness over bumps) and seems to be getting somewhat better mileage than the Goodyear car with similar driving, even though it has just under a thousand miles and the Goodyear car is a bit more "broken in" at about 3500.

 

I HATE them. My 2010 has about 17,000 miles on it and the traction in any kind of snow is absolutely horrible. It's just not there. The car us unsafe to drive in any kind of winter weather conditions. I will gladly suffer whatever mpg hit I might suffer for the peace of mind of vehicle control.

They might be great tires in souther California or Florida or anyplace where "winter weather" is rain only. But if there is even a slight chance that you will get snow on the ground, just keep the car parked. They are simply the worst tires that have ever been on any vehicle I've owned over the past 40 years.

 

These were the original equipment tires. My daughter was driving at less than 15 mph and the tires just lost grip....thank heaven for ABS as she was able to steer into a curb instead of the car in front of her. This morning we had ONE INCH of snow...streets were plowed but not salted. I was driving at 20, slowing well in advance because of an approaching intersection - tires lost it...I was literally out of control for about 30 yards as even under "easy" braking these tires lost their grip. Turning into the parking lot at my office, the speedo showing 6 mph, the tires flat out lost grip and I slid past the turn. I got inside and immediately go online to Tire Rack and ordered new tires (General Altimax, which have been phenomenal on my 05 Prius).

I bought my car in September of 09...we didn't have a lot of snow, that winter, but they seemed to do "okay". This second year - horrible.

 

I ditched those tires with about 5-7k miles on them. While they were fine in summer, I felt they were a little noisy and didn't have quite as much grip as I'd liked. One blizzard with them, and it was time for some Blizzaks on separate rims. It's like a night/day difference with the snow handling. I wish I'd researched more when I replaced the AVIDs, as the tires I got have a 70k tread life, but their rolling resistance is bad. I took a 5 mpg hit, but I have a better gripping tire, at least. Handles much better in rain than the AVID did as well. At least, that's my perception, and since I'm the one driving the car that is all that matters .

 

It's just amazing to me that people don't understand tires at all, and I don't mean the above poster.

A tire is by definition a compromise .... a high mileage (which lasts a lot of miles, as well as gets high MPG), low rolling resistance tire will by definition be mediocre at cornering/stopping in the dry, poor at cornering/stopping in the rain, and absolutely horrible/dangerous at cornering/stopping in the snow. Go ahead and trade those tires in on some high performance all season tires .... all those issues go away (except for the SNOW part). Do you know WHY THEY GO AWAY ?? They go away because the compound that the tire is made of is stickier, softer and more compliant .... kind of like a pencil eraser compared to a hockey puck. They're BOTH rubber, right ? With stickiness comes rolling resistance .... THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. With rolling resistance and cornering/stopping ability comes less MPG. You can not have low rolling resistance, high performance, and snow ability in ANY TIRE .... EVER.

Cars being driven in slippery winter conditions demand snow tires (as you found out).... THERE IS NO OTHER WAY.

People who complain about the stock tires on ANY car being bad in slippery winter conditions need to buy SNOW TIRES. Problem solved. Snow tires are made of the SOFTEST compounds, with millions of little grooves and cuts called 'siping' ... this gives the tire the ability to flex and clean itself of snow and slush, but results in an outrageously short life due to the softness and flexibility of the compound. These tires are constantly scrubbing themselves off on the road, and that's why you get great snow and reasonable ice performance. You should always put snow tires on as late as possible in the season, and take them off as soon as you expect no more slippery weather. If you do that, and drive gently, you may get 3-4 effective snow seasons out of a set of snows. Drive snow tires in warm dry weather at high speeds, and watch them wear away just like a well used pencil eraser in about 10K miles.

Believe me ... if the tires you replaced the AVIDS with are a lot stickier, and you took a huge MPG hit, there's NO WAY they're going to last 70K miles. You'll be lucky to get 30K out of them. Sticky, high rolling resistance tires go away real fast. The highest performance tires that come on Mustang GT's and Corvettes typically get about 10,000 miles per set (if that) ... why ?? Because they're like a rubber sponge ... soft, sticky, and with VERY high rolling resistance, but BOY !!! Do they handle !!! THey act like rain isn't even there, and they stop on a dime. They're HORRIBLE in the snow, but that's more because tires like that have BIG contact patches (due to very low profile and very wide tires), which gives them great grip ... unfortunately, big contact patches means less pounds per square inch downforce, so a quarter inch of snow incapacitates the car.

Every tire is a compromise, there are NO EXCEPTIONS.

You don't go out and shovel show in icy conditions with flat leather soled dress shoes, do you ??? ... don't expect ANY car to handle winter conditions with LRR all season tires, because it isn't going to happen. That DOESN'T mean that the tires are junk, garbage, or any other number of names ... it means that an ignorant owner is trying to make a product do a job that it was never designed to do. Toyota has no idea where or how it's cars will be used, so to say that they put garbage tires on a car that won't work in the snow says nothing about Toyota, but says a whole lot about the person making that statement.

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I'm actually content with the tires on the car currently. It may not be the greatest compromise, but the price was pretty good (under $400 OTD including the road hazard warranty). I wouldn't say it was a "huge" hit, but maybe 5% or so. The ride quality was my main agenda at that point, and I found an acceptable compromise.

I also an very glad I got the Blizzaks for the winters. I figured if I got 4 winters out of them, then I'd be doing pretty good. At that point, I'll probably have 40-50k on the other tires as well. I won't leave the winter tires on the car once we consistently get around 50 degrees temperature wise.

I totally agree with what you said about tires, though. I don't make any faults to anyone with regards to the AVIDs, but I just wanted a different ride quality. I made the necessary change to accomplish that.

 

After researching specs and ratings on Tirerack I had the dealer take off the new OEM Yokos and replace with new OEM Good Years.
Generally I think Yokos are better tires than GY's but not in this instance. That's my assessment.

 

I hear you and that's a very reasonable stance. I commend you for understanding enough about tires to analyze a situation, make a change, assess the difference, and be happy with that decision. My wife's 05 Corolla came with Goodyear Integritys that were the worst tire I've ever encountered. It acted like the car was on ice when it rained. I didn't cry and moan about it .... I thought about it rationally, and understood what was going on .... I just changed them out at 800 miles, and they're still in my shed 5 years later. The car's been fine ever since.

What really irks me is the people who make childish and irrational statements that just highlights their own ignorance, and then attempt to blame the car (or Toyota) for their own lack of understanding the relationship between a car's tires, and the physical world. If you're driving a car and continually skid past driveways and streets, and slam into curbs, you're driving too fast for the conditions that exist for your car and it's equipment .... if you want those factors to change, you need to change a variable in the equation ... and that variable would be to get SNOW TIRES.

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i have the yokos and i think they're average for normal driving conditions. they pull ok in the snow, but stopping is really not good. i am going to lower the pressure like someone said and see if i stop better.

 

Lots and lots of posts about owners using current pressures at 40++ for mileage, but few saying they're now using mfg rating for winter conditions. Can some of these snow driving complaints possibly be attributed to these higher tire(tyre) pressures that are being used for better mpg?

 

I wouldn't doubt that a bit unk ... it seems that some here have no concept of tire dynamics. I have my yokos at 42/40, and my car works just fine here in the Poconos where we've gotten a lot of snow in the last 3 weeks. Granted ... you can't go up an extremely steep hill in 4 inches of snow on a road that hasn't been treated or plowed (ask me how I know ), but who would expect to on low-rolling-resistance all-season tires at high pressure ? I wanted to try it though. I went up a parallel equivalently steep hill that had been plowed once, but was still snow covered, and my Prius went right up it without even activating the traction control.

No all season tire is a snow tire. My wife's 05 Corolla and my daughter's 02 Mazda Protege both have good quality front snows only, and they're both like 4WD vehicles in the snow. Without the snow tires, they would both be paralyzed in the snow.

I'll get snows for the Prius next season, but since we're almost through this winter, and I just got the car, I'm just gonna tough it out for the next few winter weeks. If it snows that bad, I'll just take one of their cars.

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What may be the Yoko's or the Prius itself or a combination I barely hear the grooved concrete on the freeways now compared to the constant loud droning whiney howl that I got with the Michelin MXV4's on my previous car. So I like them, but no snow here also.

 

Ditto that. My experience here in NY wasn't too bad (although I DID have to borrow the Boss's [come on, you know who I mean] Sequoia on one occasion). Traction control engaged only once trying to get up my driveway and THAT, my friends, was both a revelation and surprise.

That all being said, by the time I got around to getting into my local Costco to inquire about putting a set of snows on, it was like trying to buy a grill in August!

So, I will have to decide whether to order a set from them for next winter or go whole hog and order another set of rims with snows and tire pressure sensors from Tirerack to swap each season. Hmmm, just how much do I hate the Toyo rims?

 

I recommend separate wheels for the snows. TPMS for those wheels are up to you. Don't have to have them, but will have to look at the annoying light on the dash (or cover it up with electrical tape). I was able to swap my snows on in about 30 minutes in December. This saved me time from going to a tire place and having them do it for me. The biggest time killer for me was gathering up the tools and putting them back away.

 

Gosh Rev...I can't help but a lot of that comment was directed to me. So allow me to explain. I live in Kansas City. It doesn't snow here often enough to warrant snow tires throughout the entire winter. But...I've owned a Prius since November 2004. I've driven them in KC winters since November 2004. Considering I have lived in KC since 1987 and this 2010 Prius on these Yokohama tires are the FIRST time I have had a car literally go out of control tells me that the tires are NOT the best to be used in this part of the country. My daughter said she slid into a curb and swore she was only going 15 mph. I believe her, because MY loss of control occurred at less than 20 mph, other cars were going much faster becuase while conditions weren't perfect, but the roads were not a sheet of ice either. I was going slower than what "conditions allow" because of the way these tires have behaved.

On one of the 2005's I switched to Michelin's and when they needed replaced, I put on General's. Yes...I took a mpg hit, but the peace of mind of knowing that I have control of the car I am driving is worth the small increase in gas consumption. It's certainly more worthwhile than storing a set of snow tires in my basement for 9 months out of the year.