Toyota customer service HORRIBLE experience 2007 toyota prius dead HV battery experience

Good point. In the US I'm sure you wouldn't ever think of paying $4k for a replacement engine, but that's only because there's lots of independent workshops that can do the job and tons of good S/H engines at dismantlers.

It would truly be interesting to know exactly what they'd quote you if you went to a Dealership and told them you want a brand new (zero mile) engine sent out from Japan and fitted and guaranteed by the dealer. Honestly I shudder to even think what they'd quote you.

As for the battery pack, 1.3kW-hr of HiMH is really a pretty small battery by today's standards. I've heard people say tha the underlying cost of the cells for Toyota is probably less than $1k. I don't for certain if that's true but I suspect it probably is.

Anyway you guys are really lucky in the US because of the huge availability of S/H parts. I really hope I don't need a new battery here in Australia because the Prius isn't near as common here and S/H parts are not in such good supply.

 

It can fail...but on a modern car its very rare...any car.

I actually think our Prius is one of the poorest built cars I have ever owned. Body and cabin rigidity are terrible for a $27k car.

How? Only difference is the brakes last a lot longer.

Totally disagree.

The Hybrid costs significantly more than a similar non-hybrid car to purchase. Yeah you save some money on gas, but compared to other economical 4cyl cars, its not a whole lot. Lets say you got 15MPG more overall over 100,000 miles. At $4 a gallon a 30MPG car costs you $13,333 for fuel over 100,000 miles. A 45MPG car costs you $8,889 over the same 100k miles. Thats a savings of $4,444 with the Hybrid.

Well...the Hybrid cost about $4k more than a comparable gasoline car...so that eats up much of the savings. Okay...so lets say you are still on your original brakes at 100k miles on the Hybrid. That saves you $500. So lets say you are $1,000 ahead. Well...if you suffer a $4k battery failure...that doesn't just "eat into your savings", it completely obliterates your savings and makes owning the hybrid more expensive.

Now thats not to say you are likely to experience HV battery failure at 100k miles, that certainly is not the case. But...it makes the point that I have always said...one should not buy a hybrid car to save money...because in reality it won't save you money. When you factor in the extra high tech in the car that can go wrong over long term ownership...I'd say its likely it will wind up COSTING you money.

Not to say Hybrid cars don't have a purpose, they are greener, use less oil, and thats a good thing...but they are not money savers.

Thats not true. The Prius costs in CA what it costs in NY.

Depends on the car. We can actually look up the cost.

Here is for a Corolla:

http://www.trademotion.com/partloca...0&make=34&model=Corolla&year=2008&catalogid=1

The Japan built engine is $8,106.44, the US built engine is interestingly more at $9,215.01. Thats just the engine...no labor.

But, like you said...nobody would ever go that route.

 

Transmission failures in "other" cars are much more common than HV battery failures in the Prius

The Prius is a $23K car. You added tech + extras to make it $27k. It's not like any of that money went into a different frame or anything of the sort. It is just fluff. So you have a $23K car that cost you $27k.

And it's quality is not abnormal for a $23k car. Hard plastics are the norm. But when you press on them they dont flex inwards like they are made of stale jello like some other brands'.

The transmission being a planetary gearset is not something that is likely to go out. The brakes last longer yes. Oil changes are high intervals between. The various fluids are basically zero maintenance. It is very rare for anything to go wrong with these cars that isnt caused by the operator.

And when the transmission blows on the other car, or the clutch needs replacing your savings just increased again. The failure rate of the HV pack is very very minimal. So the added cost effects few people. Just like exploding engines are rarer today then yesteryear, but they do still happen.

Indeed. The added warranty expense for Toyota is spread around throughout Toyota USA.

Ok, so there you go. $4k for a HV pack from the dealership is just as rediculous as $9k + labour for an engine.

So factoring back in the real price of $1.5K, into your savings equations it comes out a wash or better most of the time if you assume just as many people get new batteries as other people get new transmissions. But I am willing to wager there are more of the latter than the former.

 

The 04 Prius had an MSRP of $19,995 but was raised $300 partway thru the year. That same Prius isn't built any worse than the "$27k car" you allude to. Yours might've become $27K due to options, sales tax (some states have none), markup, etc.

Yeah, but most studies that look at cost savings of hybrids look at more than just fuel prices. See 2010 Toyota Prius II 4Dr Hatchback Cost Of Ownership | New 2010 Toyota Prius II 4Dr Hatchback Ownership Costs & Depreciation at IntelliChoice.com for an example. As so many of us have said over and over, many of those economy cars being compared aren't midsizes and don't have many features available or that are standard on a Prius.

BTW, per http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.xls, gas is $8.14/gallon in the Netherlands.

HV battery shouldn't be $4k to replace given Prius Battery Change is No Big Deal - Newsroom : Our Point of View Post / Toyota and most people's recommendations to get one from a salvage Prius for $500 or spend say $1475 for something from say Re-Involt (FAQ).

 

It is my understanding that your car had 76,000 miles on it when you purchased it. Is it possible that the previous owners did something improper to it during its lifetime before you purchased it? Did you have a Toyota hybrid mechanic check it out before you bought it? Was the car in a hot climate during its first 76,000 miles?

 

$2,588, that sure sounds familiar as price for 2nd gen pack.

 

They promised you a response but didn't say what the response will be, so why you would blame Toyota for your rental expenses is beyond me. Did they promise to pay for a rental while you wait ?

6 days is NOT a long time, for a huge corp like Toyota to respond. Frankly I'm impressed. It's not as if you bought a Ferrari or something like that. The Prius is still a TOYOTA !

Remember it's called goodwill, sometimes it's earned not demanded.

 

Average MPG of all the midsize cars sold in 2010 is 26 MPG. Prius is rated 50 MPG. That will surely show a bigger saving.

 

Overall, but if you look model by model I think you would be surprised. Look at say HV battery failures in the Prius vs transmission failures in a Corolla.

My issue isn't with the hard plastics, its with the way the vehicle has aged. It rattles worse than any car I have ever owned, and I know plenty of people with similarly priced cars...and cheaper cars...that don't rattle at all.

I can name a few threads on here with Prius transmission failures.

Oil change intervals are 5k miles...not high intervals. What fluids are zero maintenance? I got blasted off the forum on another thread for saying that the transmission fluid never needs to be changed.

I never said the HV battery was likely to fail, in fact I said the opposite. I was just saying the other poster's argument that somehow the savings of owning a Hybrid outweigh any costs of replacing the hybrid components...and thats just not the case.

Mine is a fully loaded package six, paid no markup and no sales tax.

But the Prius is BARELY midsized, and by some statistics isn't midsized at all. It also doesn't offer near the performance those midsized cars have.

Really from a size, weight and performance standpoint the car is better compared to a compact car than a midsized car.

Anyways...I have never gotten 50MPG in my Prius, ever. Maybe a couple times, but the average is in the 42-44 range.

Look, theres no harm in being realistic about what to expect. Any money savings from driving a hybrid over some other economical, gas powered car is dubious at best over the long term. Doesn't mean they aren't worth buying for other reasons.

 

I read your rambling posts.

Your expectations are way off base here.
A Toyota 800 line operator said "they" will call you back within 24 hrs and you took his word for it. Chances are the operator is not even employed by Toyota but some 3rd party company which operates phone banks offshore.
Even then, the operator said "give them 24 hrs", clearly he has no authority or control over how long it takes. Again, I repeat, the fact that "they" got back to you in a week is amazing for a company which sells millions of vehicles a month.

 

Oil change is 10k (miles) for the GenIII, and realistically 10k for a GenII. Quite a few people recommend changing the inverter and transaxle fluids in the 80k to 120k range. It's "lifetime" fluid, so it lasts somewhere in the 100k +/- 20% range. Change more often if you like though obviously.

As far as rattles and squeaks, it's a car by car basis. There are loads of complaints on any vehicle with this much hard plastic about rattles. Not every car has them, but some do. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, or perhaps the rattling interior gets the visibility.

My Prius (06) is rattle free after 80k miles. My dad's friend has an 05 with I believe a few thousand over 100k miles and has no rattle complaints. My old university used Prii as campus patrol cars and my friends who part of the patrol never mentioned any rattles.

However reading posts on here, you would figure every car had them! Some have rattles, some don't. Just the way the cookie crumbles.

Be glad it is just a rattle and not other things.

My Honda Civic coupe had the passenger seatbelt secured to the car in such a way and angle that with the window any more than a 10cm down, it would whistle. The seatbelt itself would be like a reed in the wind and sing a high pitched tune of evil. I started buckling that extra seat up even with nobody there because that changed the angle enough so it wouldnt whistle!

A friend's mustang convertible's (last year before the new body style, not sure what year that is, 04 maybe?) radio would bounce around while driving. Stock radio, would wiggle a few millimeters up and down every bump. And since the suspension sucked, that meant EVERY bump. So it wasnt just a rattle it was a bang over every bump, pothole, pebble, and small child.

 

Its 10k with synthetic oil...and the oil change interval is not 10k for the Gen II...its 5k. Its not how often people are changing their oil...its what the manufacturer recommends and what will uphold the warranty. 10k miles with synthetic oil is not a long interval at all, rapidly becoming the industry norm.

As for the transaxle fluid, in the thread I got blasted off of they recommended replacing the fluid at 30k miles! They blamed the poster's transmission failure on him not replacing the fluid, which is ridiculous when the fluid is supposed to be lifetime. Anyways, the same "lifetime" fluid is used in all Toyota transmissions, so nothing special about the Prius.

The fact that its a car by car basis is further evidence of poor manufacturing process with a lot of variables in vehicles that come off the line at different times. Not befitting a Toyota.

BS. Plenty of reliable cars out there nowadays built better than how Toyota is building their cars now. No excuse for rattles as bad as they are in my car.

Its a shame...but I don't think there is any Toyota product (Lexus products sure, but even they aren't what they once were) out there right now that I would buy today.

 

10k on the GenII is ok. Longer is OK too like you said if you use good oil.

Yes but not all manufacturers use lifetime fluid.

Toyota's aren't magical. The car by car basis is just like every other manufacturer. Not just in cars, but in everything. There are no products made today en masse that do not have a certain percentage DOA or a certain percentage that fail QC, or a certain percentage that just aren't as good but don't show it until after a little use. It's the way of the world. The best you can hope for is those percentages to be low, and Toyota has kept them lower than the rest.

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BS. I have been in many cars of today and comparing the same class to the same class there is a noticeable difference. On some the material is better, but the layout is worse.

I do agree that whatever Toyota has done to Lexus recently has not been a good thing. We got a loaner RX when we took ours in for its service (they like to do that so you buy it when your "old" car is ready!) and it just didnt feel as nice. Still nice, but not as nice. The seats felt harsher, and the design was fugly but that's another topic I suppose...

 

Not according to Toyota...and their opinion is the only one that matters when it comes to upholding the warranty.

And on this forum the lifetime fluid is considered BS.

Anyways the point of my post was to illustrate these things are not specific savings to having a hybrid vs a gas car. The maintenance needs are largely the same.

Come on...this car is prone to rattles as it ages...look at the posts in this forum.

Its not BS, I am telling you *I* would not purchase any Toyota model over its competition right now. Maybe you would, but *I* would not.

Midsized sedan? The Accord and Hyundai Sonata are better built with far nicer interiors and comparable reliability to the Camry. In fact...I don't think I would even bother to test drive a Camry...

SUVs? I'd choose a new Grand Cherokee or a new Explorer over a Highlander or 4Runner without a doubt.

Minivan? The Honda Odyssey is much more van than the Sienna.

Small SUV? The Rav4 is archaic next to the crop of new vehicles in that market segment.

I think Toyota has a lot of work to do on their vehicles IMHO.

 

SW03ES is saying the unpopular thing.. but damn is he right.

 

First off, 2011 Prius gets 48 MPG combined. 2011 (1.8L) Corolla gets 29 MPG combined. Let's use the real numbers...


Base Price of Corolla - $16K. Base price of Prius - $23.5K.


At 12K miles per year (miles a bit conservative in my opinion, I drive closer to 15K per year), Corolla owner uses 414 gallons of gasoline, Prius owner uses 250 gallons.


At $4 gas, Corolla owner spends $1650 / year. Prius owner spends $1000/ year. Net savings Prius owner - $650 / year. Prius owner closes price difference at 11.5 years, or 138K miles. Every year thereafter is $650 savings for Prius.


Think about that for a second... if you look on ebay right now you can find a dozen Priuses with over 150K miles on them.


In my own car ownership history, first car went to ~212K miles, 2nd to ~245K miles. This is with maintenance, and moderate repairs when needed. Both could have gone farther, but the cost of future repairs would have exceeded the cost of buying a new car...


My point is, over the true lifetime of the car, the Prius wins hands down. If we can assume Prius lasts to 200K (again look on ebay, they're out there already in the short lifespan of this car), over lifetime of car at $4 gas, Prius owner saves $3300.


The simulation only gets more pronounced if gas prices go up.


At $5 gas - Corolla owner spends $2070 / year. Prius owner spends $1250 / year. Net Savings, $820 / year Prius owner. Prius owner closes the gap at 9 years or 110K miles. At 200K miles, Prius owner saves $6150.


At $6 gas - Corolla owner spends $2500 / year, Prius owner spends $1500 / year. Net Savings, $1000 / year Prius owner. Prius owner closes gap at year 7, or 90K miles. At 200K miles, Prius owner saves $9150.


The only time that the Corolla owner wins over a 200K lifetime of car, is if gas stays at $2 per gallon over the 16.5 years... not happening in my opinion.


Now we can argue about repairs of each car... and believe me, I have a lot of experience in this department. Stuff generally starts failing after 100K and with proper maintenance even later. Usually I'll get salvage parts for the real expensive stuff (i.e. transmission, transfer case - for my 4WD car), and I'll do aftermarket or OEM replacement for small stuff (drive shaft bearings, strut bar bushings, etc).


Salvage battery cost ~ $500 - $700. That's only a bit more expensive than a salvage transfer case for my old SUV - $300 - $500, and realistically the price will go down as hybrids become more common. The battery isn't really that big of a deal, even if you have to replace it at say 150K... I personally think the fear of hybrid maintenance is a bit irrational.


Really the only difference is the battery, a motor / generator, and the CVT that connects everything. That's it. All are fairly common in other industrial applications.


Now regarding Toyota in general... *BOTH* Consumer Reports and JD Powers have given Toyota highest reliability (followed by Honda, and including subsidiary brands) among all the major car manufacturers. In the case of Consumer Reports this includes surveys from tens of thousands of owners of various brands. That's a lot more than your particular Prius which happens to be a sample size of 1.


I'll grant that interior of Prius could have been a bit nicer, but whatever, its under the hood that counts.

 

sorry for those who think ANY American car is better than Toyota. Oh well...keep on truckin'