Hybrid Battery and Engine replacement

It's really hard to say. I assume when you took it in the engine would run but be rough on occasions, which you interpreted as knocking?

If the engine turns over and the screen battery display shows good while the engine is running, I can't see how it's a hybrid battery fault - the HV battery is required to start the engine. If it's weak it might have trouble starting. However, if you drove the car extensively when the engine wouldn't start, you could have discharged the battery, which requires the dealer to use the special charger to recharge it a bit before there's enough energy to start the engine.

The car logs all sorts of Diagnostic Troubleshooting Codes in the ECUs' memory if there is a problem in the hybrid system. If you didn't get a Master Warning Light come on, I can't see how they've come to a weak battery conclusion.

There is a knock sensor in the engine which automatically tunes the engine timing to eliminate the knock. If the knock sensor fails a DTC is stored and the master warning light comes on. You may have had a misfire rather than knock; again, the MWL comes on and a DTC is stored, if the electronics detect a misfire.

The service manual (at least for the '04-'09 cars) lists a problem troubleshooting chart for how to proceed if no DTC is logged and a basic inspection doesn't reveal problems. While the hybrid system is different in a few respects on the later car, the engine is largely the same (same engine code 1NZ-FXE, slightly different cam profile to allow higher revs). 'New engine' is way, way down the list. I'd only begin dismantling the engine once I'd eliminated fuel pump, spark, ignition coil and ECM, unless something was obviously leaking.

The car can also lurch if the transaxle isn't able to perform its torque-balancing function adequately, but this is more likely to indicate a problem with the transaxle itself than the battery as the vast majority of power going through each MG is generated by the other MG.

 

Get a new engine and credit the 3200 back into the engine replacment cost.
It's the dealer's fault to have the wrong diagnostic so why should you paid for their mistake?

Like you said the reason you take it to a Toyota dealership since they claim to know Hybrids. Now it sounds like they don't know what they are doing but the blind troubleshooting.

 

Sounds like your car may have had two issues concurrently. As Evan said, find out the DTC that had been logged, then we can say whether it was reasonable to replace the traction battery.

Regarding the engine problem, you would probably be better off buying an engine/transaxle assembly from a lower-mileage salvage Classic vehicle and having that installed by an independent. I suggest replacing the transaxle while you are at it because no further labor is involved and at your odometer reading there's a good chance your transaxle will fail soon.

You can walk away from the car if you don't mind having an adverse credit report entered by the dealer.

Good luck.

 

did the gen1 use the same ignition coils as the genII if so, you need to replace one?

my engine started banging around at 112k miles.. it turns out one of the cylinders was not fireing... after replacing the coil, it was fine. ( now i assume i'll have to replace 3 more soon enough.. at 80 bucks a pop)

 

Wouldn't trust the same incompetents at the dealership to diagnose the engine and wouldn't let them anywhere near it for replacement even if I believed the diagnosis. Most likely they still don't know what is wrong and are playing a game of very expensive parts replacement hoping to get lucky.

They should credit you all labor for unneeded repair and also credit parts to make the unnecessary part replacement "at dealer cost" to you. You go to a dealer and pay their premium for expert advice on particular models...doesn't appear that you've gotten that. I had to make a Chrysler dealer put back in all old parts I had saved once and credit me for that... The only thing I didn't get credit for was the "tune up" which I had EXPLICITLY stated was only to be done IF the problem was found and fixed first...and it wasn't even after three attempts. By contrast the local Chevy dealer immediately diagnosed the problem on the Chrysler...had it fixed in 45 minutes at a reasonable cost. The difference was competence vs. incompetence. Turns out that it was a known issue with Chrysler, which the Chrysler boobs didn't recognize.

Your dealer made the diagnoses and did not fix the problem. They should eat all except their actual parts cost.

With the history of transaxle failure on the Gen I reported here it would seem to be folly to replace the engine and battery without doing the transaxle as well. It's hard to imagine replacing all three making financial sense at 145K.

 

If the engine wouldn't crank how did the independent mechanic diagnose it? Did the independent have the equipment necessary to capture and interpret Toyota's proprietary trouble codes?

We seem to be assuming that the battery didn't need replacing and therefore the dealer screwed up. But as far as we know both the battery and the engine needed replacing and the original independent shop screwed up by not diagnosing the battery.

 

Gas engine needs replacement before the HV battery? That's interesting...

Get clarification on "They are claiming that they had to replace the battery because it wouldn't start up...". If the small lead-acid battery is dead, it wouldn't start up as well. If they miscommunicate and replaced the HV battery instead of the 12V battery, you shouldn't pay for it.

Now that your car has a brand new HV battery, does it crank? MG1 (acts as a starter) is very powerful. It should crank the ICE. Eventhough the gas engine may not combust, it should still crank.

 

Find out who the Toyota regional representive is and contact him. Then get his approval to have your problem evaluated at another dealer and see if they come to the same conclusion. Do not tell the second dealer your history - have them give you an unbiased evaluation. If they do not say anyting about the knock sensor, then bring that up (did they check for codes, if so, what were they, etc). Then go back to the regional rep and feed him all your information and have him work the repair bill with whomever you decide to do the work. If the battery was not at fault, then the first dealer should either a) Put the original battery back in, or b) credit you the cost of the battery on the engine or whatever other repair it may need.

Many dealers will rip you off if you give them a chance.

 

This is called piston slap and your block is wore out! I lemon lawed a Civic hybrid with the same problem. Sometimes they design the pistons to be loose or cylinders’ to be flared to cheat on the mpg. ARGH! If they over do it by a thousandth then you are screwed man. You can spot this in the lemon law period if you are a mechanic.

 

Just a note that the best customer service was with a Chevy and the worst was with a Honda on this issue. The Japanese brands have a very tight margin for repairs of defects and will fight you to the end man. Been there and wore that shirt!


Love my Prius/// 56.8 MPG so far.

 

If you have not done so already, make a full report to 1-800-331-4331 and get a case number.

One of the earlier responses mentioned a knock sensor. If this meant a specific part of the car, perhaps it is the crankshaft position sensor. Your 2001 should have had that replaced previously under special service campaign. I don't know if this could be related to the engine problem, but all the details should be on the tabel in this (upcoming) negotion with Toyota.

I will also offer an opinion that if the HV battery has too low SOC to operate the car, then the appropriate response would be to recharge it not replace it. This assumes that it can accept the recharge, that the HV charger is available and that the shop knows how to use it.

Good luck and keep us filled in .

 

No, I mean a knock sensor. It's basically an acoustic pickup - a microphone - that listens to the engine. Any unexpected detonations get spotted and cause the ECM to retard the timing - ignite the air/fuel mixture earlier, before the fuel is compressed as much.

Autoignition can occur simply due to hot spots (parts of the combustion chamber that remain hot enough after combustion to ignite the next charge of air and fuel), commonly due to build-up of deposits. 'Top Tier' gas normally has enough detergent to get rid of such deposits.

Knock sensors are standard equipment on practically any petrol car. They allow cars designed for 95 RON fuel to still run, albeit with degraded performance, on 87 Road Octane fuel.

See also FuelSaving.info's knock article.

 

Short term all most dealers want to do is read codes and not diagnose. The diagnosis is the most important part. All they want to say is it is the battery because they are not acting as a true mechanic and diagnosing. I miss Augusta Toyota they were good and thought about it before trying to fix. I am told I need a battery and I did not get P3000 or P3600. I got misfire codes.

 

What exactly do they say is wrong with the engine? You don't just "need a new engine" like some little black box that gets replaced. something specific and serious must be wrong to warrant a whole new engine and they should be able to explain it to you in detail.

 

Guys, this is a two year old thread that's been bumped and unfortunately the OP didn't update us on the full details and hasn't been active since the original posts in 2009.