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7 years later my solar panels still achieve maximum efficiency...

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by burritos, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    Today was a beautiful bright sunny day in socal with a top temp of 68 degree F. At 1 PM my panels were giving me the max 2500W. Let me qualify this though. I have a 3.3 kW system, but my inverter has a max allowance of 2.5 kW. (I paid for a 2.8 kW system, but when install time had come, they only had 20 165w panels, so they installed those for me). So it's possible I've had a 25% loss in inefficiency and still wouldn't have noticed. But I'm still getting 100% efficiency for what I'd paid for so that should count for something. Note, I've never washed my panels or done any maintenance whatsoever on them.
     
  2. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    why don't you up grade your inverter? If you have 3300 watts of panel, you are potentially giving away some harvest potential! A generic design derate for DC would be ~ .77 or 77% of nameplate, which would give you an average harvest of 2,541 watts. But cool days, and edge of cloud events could shoot that up considerably. Over the course of a year, that could be a significant increase in your harvest.

    My off grid system of 400 watt quite often in he winter with cool PV temps and reflection off the snow, I often see 400+ watts.

    Icarus
     
  3. Codyroo

    Codyroo Senior Member

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    Congrats burritos, I hope my panels/inverter/system will be running strong at 7 years and beyond. We're coming up on our 4 year anniversary this summer.
     
  4. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    I'm still making full rated power after eight years as well. yay!

    And I agree - get yourself a new inverter (maybe trade?) to take full potential of your panels!
     
  5. Dave7

    Dave7 Junior Member

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    you might be able to keep your old inverter and just add another small one. Perhaps run 1 string on each inverter. No way to max out that way. What brand modules and inverter do you have?
     
  6. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    The inverter is likely to crap out way before the panels do, so put up a 3.3+ inverter now but keep the 2.5 inverter on the shelf. It's size will match later.

    -- Goldilocks.
     
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  7. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    Are you kidding me? That thing was like 6000 dollar if I remember correctly and that certainly wasn't a subsidized feature of the solar makeup. There's not moving parts. Why would it crap out?
     
  8. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    Don't know where you are buying inverters, but about $1 per watt is closer: SMA Sunnyboy Grid Tie Inverters

    I think ~ 15 years is the average life expectancy of a grid tie inverter. While there are no moving parts, there are electronic parts that are subject to heat (and repeated heating and cooling) which is what really does them in. It is not a matter of if it will crap out,, but when.

    Icarus
     
  9. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    The failed part on any power supply due to age fatigue is almost always a capacitor. Depending on what type, could be a few cents, a dollar, or a couple tens of dollars. But it will spring back to life after replacement. Now if you melt the transformer, that's another issue. :)
     
  10. Dave7

    Dave7 Junior Member

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    SMA has an optional 15 yr warranty, Kaco has a max repair cost of 500 after their 10 yr warranty expires, I think Schneider has a 15 yrs option. Enphase is 15yrs, but that's a another story. Point is that these things are proving to be reliable, enough to get 15yrs on the warranty means 20 years of life. imho.

    KACO makes 1.5 kW inverter, reasonably cost. If you don't have a combiner box and the installers ran 2 wires to the existing inverter, one string could be moved to a new inverter. May be the most cost effective way, unless you could find a buyer for the old inverter. No real big problem keeping the system as is either.
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Burritos,
    Have you seen graphs of daily output ? They follow a sine pattern when the inverter is not a limiting factor and clouds do not mess up the picture. If the top of the curve is flat it is pretty easy to eyeball how much has been cut off. It is also easy to calculate with a little calculus if that is your cup of tea. All you need is a Cos table or calculator, and to remember that the integrand of Sin(x) is Cos(x). Translate the time scale into 0 - 2*pi, find the area under the curve with its top missing, and subtract the area of that rectangle.* Representative plots from every 2 or 3 months around the year averaged would give you a pretty good idea how much production a larger inverter would supply.

    * My math skills are pretty dormant. If I made any errors, anybody, please correct.

    Cheers!
     
  12. Dave7

    Dave7 Junior Member

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    Actually there may be a more cost effective solution. Put 2 of the modules on micro inverters. That would put your kWp at 2.97 which should run on your present inverter more efficiently. Two enphase micro inverters I guess would run around $500-600 installed. Perhaps wire them before the solar meter to keep track of the total performance. Never heard of it being done, but I can't see why not. This might be a good solution for someone that wants to add a few modules to an existing system with a maxed out string inverter. The devil might be in the details, but it would be interesting to explore.
     
  13. pkallaus

    pkallaus Junior Member

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    I'd vote for the micro-inverter. You can add them on without affecting the rest of the system. Mine work great. If one would die, the rest will still keep working.
     
  14. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    Sunny Boy 700-US 700 Watt Grid Tie Inverter

    This is what I have for 2500w capacity. Maybe I just remember the price incorrectly, but it seemed like a lot to me.
     
  15. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but how are you getting power out of a 2500 watt PV array, with a 700 watt inverter? What am I missing?

    Icarus
     
  16. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    My looks like that, but it has a 2500 watt capacity.
     
  17. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Yea . . . the solar companies aren't too vocal with how much shorter the life span of inverters is, compared to the PV panels. We're running two 4kW sun power inverters ... with one inverter still able to handle another 1kW load worth of panels (4 more 225's, in our case). Now that we have the Leaf, it'll be time to start scrounging around to see if we can find some sweet deals on high efficiency 225's.
    ;)
    Now if it's like 2k1Toaster suggests - and it's just a cap that dies inside the inverter, THAT'd be WAY cool. That'll be worth the research!
     
  18. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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  19. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I agree that is the most likely failure. My SMA inverter contains 20 large electrolytics and IIRC, the Mouser price was ~$40 each when I checked last year.

    I'd encourage the OP to figure out a way to harvest all of the electricity produced by his solar panels. It seems wasteful not to put every available kWh to use.
     

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  20. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    The problem is finding people who will repair them,, and take the liability for doing so. As with so many electronics, no one wants to fix them, and few will stand behind doing so.

    Icarus