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Anybody using a BMS+ with an Enginer Kit

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by lopezjm2001, Jun 14, 2011.

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  1. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    I have been using a BMS+ with my 4KWH kit for a few weeks now. I want to know if there are any other users out there using a BMS+ with a Enginer Kit. I have found that the BMS+ to increase ICE assist and improve fuel efficiency in highway mode (greater than 70kph). Since most of my driving in Australia is in highway mode I find this device to be very useful.

    I would like to hear how others have done their setup and what their results may be.
     
    #1 lopezjm2001, Jun 14, 2011
  2. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    While BMS+ and CAN View are great for high capacity high output kits, I don't see the advantage with Enginer kit. The Enginer kit trickle charges the HV battery. Any power requirements beyond that has to come from the engine. The Enginer kit is made for blended mode driving. You can easily control how much ICE assist or how much electric assist by adjusting the peddle pressure.
    Also wouldn't more ICE assist means more fuel used and lower MPG?
     
    #2 cproaudio, Jun 14, 2011
  3. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    When I said blended mode I meant to say highway mode at a speed greater than 70km/hour when stealth mode is not possible. Enginer is a very simple system, simplicity has it's virtues but it's simplicity does not make it perform at it's full potential.

    Enginer's simplicity makes the kit be able to be installed by any Tom, Dick or Harry. For a while the kit was available as a self-install due to it's simplicity at a set price on Ebay. But for a good reason now the kit is only sold by an installer and installed by an installer who will probably mark up the price to cover his future costs.
     
    #3 lopezjm2001, Jun 14, 2011
  4. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    On Gen III Prius, sweet spot seem to be around 45-55mph. Cruising at those speeds without a kit yields 70+mpg. With a kit and the mileage jumps to 110mpg. Feathering the peddle even more would return close to 200mpg. I don't think there's any more room for improvements unless you add more electric assist. The only way BMS+ and CANView can help is if they can alter the ECU to accept more electric assist from the converter without throwing codes. BMS+ and CAN View probably wont help GenIII as the GenIII can already take 22 amps without coding. I drove about 1/4 miles with the converter putting out 22 amps with no problems. Other users have able to run 2 3KW converters at once. I believe Banshee was able to run his 8KW kit with 2 3KW converter for great distance.
    Off topic, are you seriously banned from Enginer forum?
     
    #4 cproaudio, Jun 14, 2011
  5. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    Yes this is the second time I have been banned and I am getting a bit fed up with it.
     
    #5 lopezjm2001, Jun 14, 2011
  6. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Sorry to hear about the banning. Gotta admit though, that bit about being a "Test Guinea Pig" may have offended Enginer moderators and probably didn't help your case much.
    I'll be looking for your updates here at PriusChat and feel free to contact me any time.
     
    #6 ericbecky, Jun 14, 2011
  7. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    Thanks for your condolences. If there were no problems with the Enginer product you would not think twice about the user name "Test guinea pig". Unknowingly we have all been Enginer test guinea pigs.

    When you first register with the Enginer Forum you have to accept an agreement or a code of conduct. The agreement does not include offending the moderator. Since when are you not allowed to have a bad opinion about the Enginer product.
     
    #7 lopezjm2001, Jun 14, 2011
  8. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    WOW, the GenII without BMS+ is totally opposite than Gen III. My 2010 gets higher MPG with the battery gauge at 7 bars than at 2 bars. My converter puts out maximum power regardless of HV's SOC while driving. When I park, it charges the HV pack until 7 bars then gradually drops the current down to 2.35A. Infact, I've driven 1/4 miles with the converter putting out 20+ amps at 230+v. For GenIII, running at low SOC tends to fire the ICE more to charge the HV pack. Also, my converter puts out less power at lower voltage. If I ran the HV battery down to 3 or 4 bars, the converter puts out 210v 15-16 amps. The ICE would run even at 35-40mph. Normally at those speed, with 7 battery bars, it would shut off the ICE and run on electric motor only. Worst yet, at those speed and the low HV battery, it only gets 40-50mph even with the kit turned on. I have to either pull over and let the kit charge up the HV pack or drive couple of miles at 40-50mpg until the HV pack charges up to 7 bars. I guess the Gen III has the BMS+ built in.

    Edit: Off topic again, I wonder if they banned Octane too. I haven't seen him post in a few days now.
     
    #8 cproaudio, Jun 14, 2011
  9. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    My first converter blew up because I had it tweeked to put out 20 amps for about two months before it popped and gave out the magic smoke. They are not designed to put out 20 amps in my opinion. The fuse of the converter output is rated to 16 amps. This probably means that it is not meant to put out more than 15 amps. My second converter is set at factory settings of 240v 15 amps for a Gen2 and will stay that way.

    When the converter output is 20 amps it is drawing 100 amps from the Enginer battery. If the Enginer battery is at 52 volts that gives an input power of 5200 watts. This combined with a hot day will probably make it pop.

    I remember that Octane was constantly arguing with Jack about his kit. Maybe he has been banned too.
     
    #9 lopezjm2001, Jun 14, 2011
  10. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    Mine was never tweaked. It was stock setting. When I stop, the converter puts out 2.5amps. When I start driving it puts out 14-18 amps both at 230+v.
     
    #10 cproaudio, Jun 15, 2011
  11. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    I have made a YouTube video of my Enginer kit with BMSplus at this link:


     
    #11 lopezjm2001, Jun 15, 2011
  12. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    I'm assuming that you began shutting this video with an almost plenty full enginer pack.
    Upon the readings of the CanView4, your total pack voltage is extremely to low. On my conversion, with NiMH, a healthy full pack will show -/+220vdc for several miles...... untill depletion.
    Your combined original batt pack plus the Enginer converter should read at least 228VDC.
     
    #12 mrbigh, Jun 15, 2011
  13. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    I am guessing from memory that the SoC of my Prius pack would be down to about 40% when I started shooting. The Enginer converter would have been outputting 15 amps during the whole video shoot. As the BMSplus was not designed to be used with an Enginer kit it drains more power from the Prius pack as the Enginer kit cannot put out more than 15 amps. The Enginer converter only increases the Prius battery by a 10 volts max. aprox. just to push in 15 amps. So effectively I drain the Prius battery till it lowers to an open circuit voltage of aprox. 200 volts DC which coincides with a SoC of 10 - 20%. Once the Prius battery reaches a low SoC more ICE is used to keep the Prius battery voltage at aprox. 200volts whilst being fed 15 amps by the converter.
    The converter efficiency improves when it only has to boost 200volts instead of 240volts. The boost ratio changes from aprox. 1:5 to 1:4 so it also runs a bit cooler and less likely to have a thermal shutdown in hot weather.
     
    #13 lopezjm2001, Jun 16, 2011
  14. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    Below are graphs of my trip to work 25kms distance. I leave work with a Prius battery SoC of 80% and arrive to work with a SoC of aprox 20-30%. First graph of the Enginer converter variables using a BMSplus using the BL code designed for Enginer by Norm. The Second graph using the normal BL code. The third graph is of the Enginer DC converter values without using a BMSplus. The data was recorded using the BMS16D as a data logger only. The fourth image is a picture of my Canview V4 showing my fuel consumption history of my trip to work using my BMSplus with BLenginer. I will be updating this reply as I get new SD data results.
     
    #14 lopezjm2001, Jun 17, 2011
  15. sub3marathonman

    sub3marathonman Active Member

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    Hopefully somebody can clarify this a bit further. I'm not 100% familiar with the kit.

    I thought the Enginer kit works to trickle charge the HV battery, when the electrical requirements of the Prius were low enough. If blended mode is required, I thought the Enginer kit then was supplying the energy to the motor, without going through the HV battery. So the Enginer kit is not connected to the HV battery itself.
     
    #15 sub3marathonman, Jun 19, 2011
  16. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    The kit connects to the 200vDC bus, which has the boost converter on one end and the battery on the other (you physically connect where the battery joins the DC bus). So yes, if the HV ECU is requesting more power than the kit can provide (about 3.5kw/14 amps) then all kit power is going straight to the motor. if the HV ECU is asking for -less- than 14 amps (lets say 10 amps), then 10 amps are flowing to the motor, and the remaining 4 amps flow into the battery.

    If you're driving over 20mph, then all kit power is going to the motor, and not going via the traction battery.
     
    #16 Flaninacupboard, Jun 19, 2011
  17. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    In blended mode the Hybrid ECU decides how much electric motor power to use to assist the ICE(internal combustion engine). So if the SoC(state of charge) is high then it will use more electric motor power and reduce gasoline usage.
     
    #17 lopezjm2001, Jun 19, 2011
  18. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    Doesn't going below the SOC of 40% really bad in terms of pack life. The Prius maintains the HV battery between 40% and 60% (80% is the point where the system starts using the ICE to burn on excess energy). By running your HV pack to 20%, that would be a huge risk or am I understanding this wrong???
     
    #18 banshee08, Jun 20, 2011
  19. lopezjm2001

    lopezjm2001 Senior Member

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    There is a risk, see the following link bottom of page "At the lower extreme"

    hybridinterfaces
     
    #19 lopezjm2001, Jun 20, 2011
  20. JeffreyDV

    JeffreyDV New Member

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    I don't think that is correct. I can drive over 25 mph and get a negative reading for BTA on my Scangage with the MFD showing power flowing from the battery to the traction motor.
     
    #20 JeffreyDV, Jun 20, 2011
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