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2002 Prius clogged fuel injectors @ 62,000

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by mckjam, Nov 18, 2005.

  1. mckjam

    mckjam New Member

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    I just got my 2002 Toyota Prius out of the shop after 8 days. The injectors were clogged and they said they could not be cleaned, only replaced on a Prius. It cost over $800. Has anyone else had this problem. On bulletin PG011-05 Toyota states their is a potential problem of injectors clogging on any of their cars with port electronic fuel injection. They outline a procedure to fix it by cleaning them. On a Prius, however, the procedure is to replace them?
    Toyota only offered to pay $300 of the bill and they made sure I knew they did not even have to do that. Any suggestions? By the way, I have maintained all of my maintenance on the car, including all major services.
    Jon
     
  2. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Fuel injectors usually clog from excessive dirt, or deposits. I'm not sure about cars, but diesel equipment benefits from <10 micron secondary filtration.

    At my hobby farm I have an outside 250 gal diesel storage tank. I set it atop a concrete cradle that is sloped so the rear of the tank is about 4 inches below the pump intake on the front of the tank.

    I did the slope to avoid dirt/water which I can then let out the bottom drain port. You'd be surprised how much trash comes out. I also learned a valuable tip from a mechanical engineer with a lot of heavy equipment experience:

    Never, EVER use a regular vent cap with a screen for a tank vent. Always use a filter, preferably one with desicant added. It all but eliminates atmospheric dust from the tank.

    I have a hand pump with inch and a quarter outlet, to which I rigged a manifold. The first filter head is roughly a 40 micron with water separator, the second filter head is 10 micron.

    Going through all of that, my tractor at my hobby farm should last a long time. Unfortunately, when you pull into a gas station you have to assume whatever comes out the nozzle has dirt/water.

    Did the injectors slowly clog over time, or did it happen all of a sudden? Could be a tank of bad/dirty gas. Most automotive fuel filters - even for fuel injection - are not better than 20-30 micron. Once a filter clogs, it will either rupture or go into bypass.
     
  3. mckjam

    mckjam New Member

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    It happened all of a sudden. There were no warning signs that the injectors were getting clogged.
    Jon
     
  4. mikepaul

    mikepaul Senior Member

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    I'm adding injector cleaner occasionally now, but I am annoyed by the 'permanent' fuel filter. At least, 'too-labor-intensive-to-change-on-a-whim' fuel filter.

    Not having any experience with fuel filters in the tank, do they hold up well?...
     
  5. Maytrix

    Maytrix Member

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    I had a similiar problem with my snowmobile a few years ago. It took awhile for them to figure it out, but they ended up emptying the gas tank and found there was all sorts of tiny particles and such in it. The guy said it looked like pepper. I have no idea whether someone screwed around with it (the sled was in a fairly accessible area) or if it was just bad gas, but it certainly clogged the injectors.

    If it was from the gas, then maybe you had a similiar issue.
     
  6. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Jon:

    If injectors clog slowly over time, you may notice prolonged cold cranking (May not be applicable to a Prius), a cold engine stumble, a hot stumble, etc.

    If it happens literally all at once, either a fill with very bad gas or all the muck in the bottom of the tank was suddenly picked up by the pump and pushed through the system.

    jay
     
  7. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I hope they do.

    A lot of the reason behind the "permanent" fuel filter has to do with tougher emission requirements. Most if not all newer (+2004 model year) vehicles use "returnless" electronic fuel injection.

    Older fuel injection was higher pressure (Say 60-80 psi for gasoline) and high volume. The injectors are mounted to a fuel "rail" and triggered via individual solenoids.

    A fuel pressure regulator is set to keep the rail pressure at a certain range. Once the higher limit is reached, the valve/diaphram pops off and the excess is sent via a return line back to the fuel tank.

    In a way, fuel was always circulating between the fuel tank, the rail, and back to the tank. My 2000 GMC Sierra with Vortec 5.3 was like that. AFAIK for either 2003 or 2004 MY the Vortec also went to a "returnless" system with "permanent" fuel filter.

    With my 2000 GMC I'd change the fuel filter ever fall, to hopefully avoid icing during winter. My fuel pump was almost silent, I could sometimes detect a high-pitched whine. I could always tell which Chevy/GMC truck owners never changed their fuel filters, the pump would moan or howl.

    I agree if you DO pick up a tank of bad gas, or even a bit more crud than usual, it's an expensive proposition to get it fixed.
     
  8. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Ever take apart carbs? Like Holley four barrel or the newer Edelbrock (Weber) four barrel with common bowl?

    You will find a similar deposit in older carbs too. The texture is like finely ground pepper and will eventually plug accelerator pumps and emulsion tubes in carbs too.

    If you put a 5-10 micron fuel filter on an outside fuel tank (Diesel or gasoline) and take it apart after a year, it will be almost plugged with the same material. I have a diesel storage tank at my hobby farm and two years ago put in a gasoline storage tank for the old truck and lawnmower: both filters show the same debris.

    Let's face it, fuel isn't clean by any measure.
     
  9. tdi2prius

    tdi2prius New Member

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    Don't know your location but last year Milwaukee had a big problem with hundreds of suddenly plugged injectors -- read this about ethanol and sulfate salts. Might be something for others to watch, too.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/mar05/312573.asp
     
  10. tdi2prius

    tdi2prius New Member

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    Here's another link that addresses the replacement vs. cleaning issue. Looks like lots of unnecessary replacements took place. Sad to see Toyota has no cleaning protocol for these. Or was that a dealer crock?

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jul05/343514.asp