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The Facts about Fracking

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by wjtracy, Jul 5, 2011.

  1. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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  2. priushippie

    priushippie New Member

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    I own 140 acres in Western Pennsylvania and hope to make a few bucks when the landmen and drillers arrive. Natural gas is a big part of our energy solution and should be utilized as much as possible. The environment can benefit from using more natural gas as well as solar and wind.
     
  3. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Well this former Pittsburgher is inclined to agree with you, but the New Yorkers in opposition may catch up to you, as they did me.
     
  4. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    "Facts" from the Wall Street Journal. No bias there, I'm sure. If it's good for business, it's good for you. Here's a quote from the article...

    "...A second charge, based on a Duke University study, claims that fracking has polluted drinking water with methane gas. Methane is naturally occurring and isn't by itself harmful in drinking water, though it can explode at high concentrations..."

    See, fracking is perfectly safe. You have nothing to worry your pretty little heads about. Now go back to drinking your bottled water. :rolleyes:
     
  5. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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  6. priushippie

    priushippie New Member

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    This will go round and round I am sure. In Western Pennsylvania there are hundreds of wells being drilled into the Marcellus shale without incident. Most are producing millions of cubic feet of natural gas. Our energy independence is in the making. The nice thing is that the trees are still huggable unlike mountain top removal in West Virginia to extract clean (LOL) coal or oil wells spewing crude in to the Gulf.
     
  7. priushippie

    priushippie New Member

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    BTW Gasland is a lot of BS. I see nothing of the sort around here!
     
  8. priushippie

    priushippie New Member

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    I work with people that have had ther land drilled. Yes it is noisy when they are drilling and yes they cleared about ten acres for the equipment and yes they are getting a lot of money!
     
  9. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Yes this methane in water is a less understood issue. I was glad the article at least talked about it. Helped me a little. I think they are saying if you have your own water well, may be some methane traces in there in some situations.

    Keep in mind, while this WSJ article is taking positive stance on nat gas, NYTimes is crucifying nat gas in a hard hitting series of articles. Cramer (Mad Money) feels the NYTimes controls the political outcome, so Cramer feels nat gas future growth outlook is taking semi-fatal blow from the NYTimes series. Perhaps we need to interpret WSJ article in that light.
     
  10. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    Interesting how peoples opinion on certain subjects may change depending on their economic self interests. How many Cap Codders are all for green energy until they want to put it in their own yard? Would I be less inclined to support fracking if I was going to get a check every month?

    Personally, I think that Nat. Gas is a good and proper bridge fuel to use as we transition to a less carbon intense energy system. That said, it does not follow that we should get Nat. Gas at any environmental cost. (See also Tar sands oil!)

    Icarus
     
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  11. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Member

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    Cramer- what does he know ?He completely missed the 2008 economic crash.
    Does he really think the NYT matters anymore- to folks in Tx,La, Montana?

    I am curious just what nasty chemicals are in the fraking fluids? I wonder just how important the nasty components are? Why use the toxic stuff- is it to dissolve waxy gunk-they need some nasty solvents?
    Charlie
     
  12. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I didn't bother reading either of the "bias-free" references since (a) they're not, and (2) whether we like it or not, NatGas is here to stay, so it really doesn't matter...unless you advocate going back to the 'carefree' 1880's lifestyle.
    OK.....maybe I was a little too lazy to weed through the articles...so that's Three.

    I believe that I read where some form of hydraulic fracturing is used in most oil and natural gas (even some deep water) wells---but this is outside my area of expertise, since I currently get paid to fix phones for a living.
    So....I'll continue to view the extremists on one side that say that we'll poison the landscape forever if we frack one more well, and those on the other that say we need all the fracking wells we can get, with equal distain. :rolleyes:

     
  13. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Re: Cramer- Of course take it a with grain of salt. I do not buy stocks, but I listen to his show sometimes, because I do agree with his environmental positions on coal, gas, he has very good aptitude for non-technical guy. He is speculating that the NYTimes bashing of nat gas will hold Congress back from passing laws to favor gas such as Pickens plan and related nat gas "subsidy" encouragements.

    As far as fracking fluids composition, you got me there. Not sure how they formulate and what the options are. Presumably one could make a non-toxic fluid at some greater expense. The article basically said it is a complete non-problem, so therein lies the issue. Why bother? But there is common sense at play too.
     
  14. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    I lost any faith in WSJ after reading an article calculating Obama tax rate at 70%. The WSJ has the axe to grind, they just pissed off for all after 2008 wall street probes and new regulations.
     
  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    PriusHippie- 140 acres in PA sounds pretty good investment right now. Was just at my HS reunion and some folks were saying they did not get lucky in having the right land. So explain this to me a little. I have friends who had coal under their house in PA but I do not think they got any money when the coal company long-walled under their property, it was national news briefly. So I guess in the case of shale gas the land owners own the mineral rights? Much nicer that way of course. But I know some people in western NY that have no profit of the nat gas on their property despite the construction activity.
     
  16. bac

    bac Active Member

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    The issue is that the current regs do not address the type of drilling done when fracking. Many companies are getting in before the regulations and grandfathering wells as quickly as possible. Good for business no doubt, but not so much for the people.

    I'm all for this energy source as long as it's safe for the people. However, industry has a long history of poorly regulating itself. There needs to be real regulation - and before it's too late.

    -Brad
     
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  17. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    You nailed it!
     
  18. skilbovia

    skilbovia Member

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    If small towns didn't suddenly have 100s of trucks driving thru lazy downtowns.
    If gas processing plants didn't hum all night and destroy any chance for sleep
    If wastewater from fracking never spilled into the wetlands and streams
    If the Bush administration didn't exempt all the poisonous chemicals used in fracking from the EPA most dangerous list so Cheney and Halliburton could prosper.
    If New York wasn't afraid that they would pollute the NYC water supply.
    If pics of what happened in Texas towns when oil wells run dry weren't disturbing.
    If methane in my drinking water was OK.
    If it made sense that you could blast the hell out of the ground 1000s of feet down and not disturb the rock above it.

    Well, then I'd be all for fracking.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i've been a fracking proponent since i hit puberty.
     
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  20. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Bisco- I guess that's why you've been thanked 399 times in 333 posts.

    Wow, finally caught up on the NYTimes anti-natural gas series.
    In short, NYTimes claims the new nat gas boom/finds (100-yr supply) is a lie and near-complete falsification by industry. NYTimes has uncovered emails from EIA.gov insiders (Energy Admin) that support this conclusion, they say. However, many are thinking NYTimes has lost their way. By the way, did we land on the Moon or not?