Hybrid incentives

#2 is flat out wrong. Single fuel cars *are* transitioning us to alternatives. Here are just two things demonstrating it:

1. The batteries in the 2nd gen Prius are improved over the 1st gen. The batteries in the hybrid Camry are supposedly even better than 2nd gen Prius. Why? Because (a) the economics of building a lot of batteries and (b) research has a clear quick payback. The batteries in a "created someday" 100% EV will rely on exactly this sort of experience, research, and economic justification.

2. Public acceptance of electric motors driving cars is *vastly* improved with hybrids. It is now commonplace for people to have ridden in or "experienced" a car with electric drive of some sort. This is hugely important in the rollout of the first *successful* all-electric car. The GM EV-1 failed for this reason more than any other - it was too new and weird. By giving people a sample of EV wrapped up in a normal car they will be MUCH less resistant to something that actually does plug in. Can't you see the sales campaign - "Electric vehicles have been on the road for 15 years now. Finally there's one that can drive by the gas pump and never stop" - or some such. The point is, a (human) generation's worth of hybrid's is going to go a very long way to selling the Electric Prius ™ or whatever.

And as for the "bickering" among owners, it's more along the lines of "we don't understand why car maker X made that design choice." The result of that thought process is "we don't understand why those consumers would choose that implementation of hybrid technology."

So, feel free to shout from the mountaintops about the pointlessness of petroleum-based hybrid engines. But your way to electric-vehicle nirvana is not the only way, may not be the best way, and unless you are building an alternate fuel car company, is the not the way that is likely to be chosen by the rest of the world.

<---- The windmill is that way, Sancho.

 

We have an example here, of people who don't believe in the "small steps" theory of evolution. DOliO (sorry if I spelled that wrong) gives me the impression that he wants NOTHING to do with any car until it is perfectly non-fossil fuel using and non-polluting. I ask, in the meantime..what ARE you driving?

These are the same people who chide ANY improvement because it isn't good enough. They seem to completely disregard the fact that there currently IS no viable alternative. If no one bought Prii, where would be the incentive to improve upon it....We would get NOWHERE.

You can apply this to politics, economics, social issues, education...on and on. We should look to see if things are headed in the right direction...not so much as how fast they are moving.

 

Excellent point I must say!..... If the prius is to be comdemned in any way... where is the better alternative?.. I'll buy it!

Until then, Toyota has the edge..... All my life I have never bought toyota.. almost avoided them, not because they were not good.. I knew they were!, but I really felt like they were "over-rated" due to the "Fad" of owning one!.. There were many other vehicles out there that appeared "in my eyes" to have the same longevity, performance, and abilities for 20% less price!.....

Having said that..... Toyota has now blown me away with the prius!.... I have always bought cars that were about two - going on three years old with about 20K miles to get the sweetest deal!... I really didn't see the benifit of owning a brand new car for the money!....
I could buy a 30,000.00 rig for 20,000.00 if it had 20K miles on it!.. I figured some poor snook paid 10 grand to drive it 20K miles and smell that new car smell.... and I would pay 20 grand to drive it another 220000.00 miles!!!!!

But when the prius came out, for the first time I saw a car that had something every other tom, dick, and harry car didn't have!....
And why am I buying the "latest" model you may ask?.... if I"m buying for technology.. it might as well be the latest!...
And the prius has such an awesome resale value.. I see little benifit for getting a used car when for a few coins more I can get the 06... actually "less" if you figure the tax credit!

To some negative mindsets... the glass is half empty... you have to prove to them differently, otherwise because the glass is not full, it is not worthy to drink from!,
To others, its half full and the positive mindset person is excited there is a half a glass of water to drink!... even though more would be nice!

Negative people miss out on so much life!!!!!! Because its not perfect!

The prius is definately a half perfect car! and getting better every year!.... So many
other automakers "like GM" have made the mistake of focusing on tinsel and flashy advertising, rather than putting their money where their mouth is!... they they put it in thier bank account instead of "back into thier product!" and now they are falling away.

Greed takes and takes from the fruit tree until its wasted, but the smart farmer puts back into the soil, waters and prunes the tree until it makes nice juicy fruit!!

 

My kind of a car!

See http://www.catmanor.com

William

 

Nice pudty tat!!!

 

Some replies to a number of posts....
.... Got bumped out of my "Track this Topic" somehow.

Absolutely, and an EV today will be an even cleaner EV tomorrow if we're doing our job to clean up grid power, till then your toaster and TV are just as dirty as that EV or PHEV would be.

As for the mention of Hydrogen, there we have a no win situation. EV tech is arguably already there, they've been in use since the late 1800's afterall. Hydrogen cars cost a cool million, and they are mostly EV's with expensive batteries, that can't be easily recharged. There's NO infrustructure, and the energy required to produce the fuel is far greater than simply charging a battery. Keep in mind that NG derived H2 is still a fossil fuel and finite in nature.

Actually, I'de prefer an EV1 or RAV4-EV, But those were never really available for us to "Vote" for them by "Purchasing" one. So Instead I drive my 2000 Insight or my 2005 Prius, the Insight is superior for a single driver (or with a single passanger) at 70+ miles per gallon, It's also more fun to drive (I AutoCross mine, and do very well). The Prius is better for more passangers, or for the girlfriend who doesn't like the 5-speed. The Prius will also be better on long (2000 mile) roadtrips, because you can streatch out and take a good nap! The Prius is also going to be easier to convert to a PHEV with the simple addition of a larger battery and external charger, though I intend to convert both.

It's irronic that the most advanced batteries that we have are comming from the electronics (NOT the Auto) industry in laptops, cell phones, and now powertools. Lithium-Ion will be the battery of choice. The ACP Tzero has demonstrated 300 miles of range in a 0-60 in 4 second sport BEV. I use 96 cellphone batteries in my 24v scooter, this 8 lbs battery delivers twice the range (10 miles) of the 20 lbs PbA batteries it replaced, and will deliver far more cycles toboot while costing only slightly more at $100, while costing less in the long run.

The GM EV-1, and the rest of the "Production" EV's failed because GM and Bush succedded in repealing the California ZEV Mandate, releasing them from the obligation to build these cars. Rather then fighting against them perhaps they should have been fighting to increasing awairness and ramp up production. As I mentioned earlier, they were never available for sale, all that were produced were "Placed", and there are still waiting lists for them, dispite a total lack of advertising or education regarding their "Weird" nature. I still can't understand why GM isn't producing a GenIII EV1-Hybrid? Then people like me wouldn't have to build our own.

Oh, and a Toyota RAV4-EV just sold for $53K on e-bay, that's an old and unsupported production ev selling for twice it's original cost, no demand aigh? Many of these vehicles have 150K miles and are still "running", too bad we won't every really know how long an EV1 would last or what it's long term maintainance might be.

"Small steps" theory of evolution? I'm all about evolution and it's small steps, it's how God does her inteligent designing, to get right to the point. (Teach Evolution, and believe in inteligent design if you want to) BEV's are not "NEW" technology, The honest problem is that "you can't sell oil to people who drive electric cars". There may also be political entanglements, as I may have already implied. So don't just blindly buy what the mainstream is selling you, do a little research. I myself wasn't awair of BEV's just a few short years ago, so imagine my surprise when my Insight turned out not to really be an electric car at all. I was fortunate enough to drive an EV1 for a day before they became extinct, what an amazing car, sure puts my Insight and Prius to shame.

Anyway, No hard feelings, afterall Learning is just
an evolutionary process of changing ones mind.

L8r
Ryan