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P3026 - Block 16.... which modules are these?

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by srponies, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. srponies

    srponies New Member

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    I have an '01 with 187k miles that I installed a used traction battery in 6 months ago. Yesterday had the triangle and warning lights come on as well as the "check engine" light.

    Scanned and got P3006 and P3026. My scanner says Block 14 in regards to the P3026, but doing some searches I am finding it relates to Block 16.

    Which modules does this actually coincide with in the battery pack? Or should it be evident if I open it up and check individual voltages?

    I am not sure yet which direction I am going to go yet to take care of this.

    Thanks for any info.
    Steve H.
     
  2. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    It should be evident when you open the case and check the voltages. The most obvious case is when one module is 1.2V less than every other one. Pathological cases are high internal resistance or high resistance at the bus bars. I can't be sure about 2001-2003, but on 2004-2009, the lowest number is furthest from the battery ECU. So #16 would be modules 31 and 32, or the 7th and 8th modules counting from the ECU.
     
  3. vincent1449p

    vincent1449p Active Member

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    It is just the opposite on the 2001-2003. There are module markings at the base case showing 1,5,10,15,20,25,30 & 35.

    Vincent
     
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  4. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Heh...thanks for clearing that up!
     
  5. srponies

    srponies New Member

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    I had a chance this morning to pull the battery and disassemble it a bit. I checked voltages for each of the modules.

    Module 32: 6.55 V
    All others measured between 7.79 and 7.90.

    I will probably put module 38 into 32 slot, then add a replacement at the end. I have some extra modules, so I will check voltages on them and see what I've got.

    And I have a bit of corrosion to clean up on the connections on the wiring harness side.

    Steve
     
  6. srponies

    srponies New Member

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    The 2 extra modules that I have measure 7.56 and 7.32 volts. Can these be "charged" individually to bump up the voltage a bit? Like with a 12v - 1 amp charger for a few minutes. Or is the 7.56v close enough to the others (7.8-7.9v) that it will balance out in time?

    BTW - the extra modules have been sitting for 6months and have each dropped approx .15volts.

    Thanks for any info.
    Steve
     
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    You can charge up an individual module to achieve the desired voltage but I do not know that it is wise to use a 12V charger for that purpose.

    1) the charger may refuse to provide voltage if the recipient battery is only at 7.5V.

    2) you do not want to be charging at the rate of 1A for an extended period, that may overheat the module and cause it to explode.

    3) make sure the module is compressed before you charge it or the plastic sides will likely expand and explode.
     
  8. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    In the absence of a proper charger, you are probably better off to bottom balance the two replacement modules. They need to be SoC matched as close as possible. Discharge them to 7.2V, then connect the pair in parallel for about 15 minutes. Now, put them back into the car in slots 37 and 38, and let the battery ECU take care of matching the SoC of the new pair with that of the rest of the pack.
     
  9. srponies

    srponies New Member

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    All of the information is greatly appreciated. I wasn't sure about the 12v charging so I did skip that.

    I ended up installing the #38 into the #32 position. Then I took one of my replacements and put it into #38. I "balanced" the 37 & 38 modules by connecting them in parallel. Ended up with a voltage of 7.77 in each. Slightly less than the lowest module of all of them.

    What would be the reason to discharge the pair to 7.2v compared to just balancing the 2?

    Thanks for the help.
    Steve
     
  10. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    In partially discharged NiMH, there is considerable error in measuring SoC based on open circuit voltage. When pairing modules in series, it is best to get the SoC of each module as close to the same as possible, since there is no mechanism for balancing them individually. All the battery ECU can do is estimate the SoC of the pair and try to keep them in balance with the rest of the pack. If, for example, one module was installed with a SoC of 40 and the other with a SoC of 60, then the high module could hit a SoC of 100 when the rest of the pack is at 80. At 7.2V discharged, the SoC for either module is within a few % of zero, so there is little risk of having one of the modules in an overcharged or overdischarged situation.
     
  11. srponies

    srponies New Member

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    Ok so I connected 37&38 in parallel and connected a small fan to them. Discharged them to 7.21V.

    Reassembled everything and just got it started. So far so good. I will keep travels local for a bit and go from there.

    Thanks for the help.
    Steve
     
  12. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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