Ford EVs to come with household solar-panel option

You're joking, right? Lots of folks get significant energy from house-roof-mounted solar panels. Several right here on PC charge their EVs for free from PVs on the roof of their house.

 

it was humor. Not making fun of solar panels, in general. I am making fun of the marketing of $10K panels paired with a vehicle. A reasonable and proper solar array for full house generated electricity, while still expensive, can be a great idea for some.

It just sounded as odd to me to market the panels with the vehicle as it would to market a tanker truck of gas alongside a new ICE-powered car.

 

Interesting move on Ford's part over there. I dont think any company should hide a price, its just silly. Thats the worst kind of advertising IMO.

The 2012 Ford Focus Electric, a sedan that seats five, runs exclusively on electricity. It is expected to have a range of at least 80 miles per charge. Anyone have any idea or a ballpark on the price of the upcoming Focus Electric?

 

Good! Yes, I think we were making the same point in different ways: EVs are good, solar panels are good, but marketing them together is a gimmick.

I suspect they have not yet decided how much to charge for the car. They may not have decided yet how big a battery pack to install. At current battery prices, it's a significant part of the cost of the car, and they have to balance utility against price.

I've been told by someone who I think researched it, that there will be only a few Focus EVs available, in a very limited market; fewer and more limited than the 2011 Leaf.

 

Probably around the price of the Leaf, maybe less. The Focus does use active thermal management which Nissan passed over to reduce cost, but all the non BEV parts are already being mass produced for the ICE version.

Their announcements have been for an 80 to 100 mile range. I don't see them suddenly deciding to substancially reduce the range below what EVs are currently available. So they probably already know battery size.

The solar panel offer is a gimmick, but it does highlight the versatility and potential cleanliness of electric sources to the uniformed car shopper. Bonus if customers get an actual discount on the panels in the deal.

 

There seems to be disagreement over this issue, with some folks claiming that the Nissan battery chemistry does not require active cooling, while others fear the Leaf's battery will have a shorter lifetime because of it. Only time will tell.

 

Unless there is an advertised "package price" that is clearly less than purchasing the two components individually.

For example, if the car has an invoice of $20K and the PV panels have a price of $10K, and the Combo Package is advertised for $25K, then it makes sense. But I agree with you that the current way Ford is marketing this is a gimmick.

I completely agree. I would rather Ford use their size and influence to reach a large audience of the general public to remind the general public that PV panels exist ... and when balanced properly with your driving, can cost you $0 to operate AFTER initial purchase.

Now come the bumper stickers ... "This EV runs from 100% solar panel power on my house. How much does it cost to fill up your full size SUV ... EACH TIME?"

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They may not need it, but keeping the batteries at the optimum temperature does improve charging and discharging performance. I believe it is key to the EV's success in the North East. Keeping the battery warm during charging might make the difference for having enough range during the winter. Volts have taken a hit to EV range in the cold, and they have a thermal management system. Is there any Leafs in harsh winter areas yet?

 

Every battery produces heat (i.e. is less than 100% efficient) both when it is charged and when it discharges. So in cold weather you always get the benefit of some warming. Faster charging will give the battery less time to dissipate the waste heat so it will get hotter.

Different battery chemestries have different temperature characteristics. Standard li-ion laptop batteries are subject to thermal run-away: if they get too hot, continued use will make them get hotter faster. Thus the Tesla requires active temperature management. The LiFePO4 batteries in my Xebra do not experience thermal run-away so do not need cooling to be safe.

But keeping a battery within its ideal temperature range will make it more efficient.

Degradation over time is another issue (apart from the safety concerns of thermal run-away) so a particular battery may not require cooling for safety, but may last longer if its temperature is correctly managed.

Because batteries are chemical devices, and most chemical reactions proceed faster at higher temperatures, a colder battery may not deliver as much power, and a hotter one may be capable of delivering more. Thus a Leaf in a very cold climate might perform less well than one in a milder or warmer climate. The Tesla uses both heating and cooling of the pack as needed to keep it at the desired temperature, and even has a "performance" mode in which the batteries are kept at a higher temperature (at the cost of reduced lifetime) in order to deliver maximum power.

 

All EVs take a hit in performance, range being the most important, to some degree in cold weather. A thermal management system will reduce to performance. More importantly, for areas with harsh winters, it keeps the battery at the ideal temperature for charging. The Leaf, without such a system, will have its range, like the rest, negatively effected by the cold. On top of that, its battery may not have reached a full charge because of the cold.

This will give the Leaf a wider gap in driving range through out the year. Real world results still need to be seen, but Nissan did report a wide range based on driving style and climate control use. Its official range is plenty for my commute. But there is regularly below freezing, even single digit temperature mornings when I leave for work during the winter. On those days, I don't think the Leaf is up to the job.