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CHS related CEL question

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by reighnman, Jun 26, 2011.

  1. reighnman

    reighnman New Member

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    First off the information on this forum has been great :) Our 2005 prius has logged 170,000 miles (we purchased it used with 90,000) and this is the first time we've ever ran into any issues with it, love the car. Well, a few weeks ago the check engine light came on and we just happened to have an emissions inspection that week, which was failed because the check engine light was on (they didn't even test the exhaust).

    After taking it to a local dealer to see what the check engine light was all about, they came back and told us it was related to the Coolant Heat Storage system and that the CHS temperature sensor would need to be replaced. They also told us that the water pump had a minor leak and would need to be replaced. Another non-related but related issue is that the driver side wheel liner was ripped out when my wife decided some off-roading... and after seeing where the CHS is located this might be a factor.

    Could low coolant levels (related to the water pump leak) be causing the CHS temp sensor alarm? I'm making an appointment with the dealer to have water pump replaced (or may DIY if the job isn't too bad), I'm just wondering if I should hold off on the CHS related parts until that has been fixed. I checked all the connections and everything seems good, no corrosion yet. The temp sensor is on the front side of the tank so it wouldnt be getting splashed too much by the wheel even without the liner.

    I did also get a new fender liner but don't have the plastic push pins to put it in. Anyone know what the part number is for those, or if there is an install kit?
     
  2. reighnman

    reighnman New Member

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    I also noticed when turning on/off the car I can't hear/feel any noise from the chs pump, and the lines to the pump are cold even when the car has been driven for awhile. If the pump was out would the temp sensor be faulting?
     
  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Which pump has a minor leak: the engine coolant pump or the CHS pump?

    I assume that even if the engine coolant pump is leaking, that it is still moving fluid. If it were not, the engine would quickly overheat.

    If the CHS pump was not working then the temp sensor would not report expected changes in temperature.

    If you are able to DIY replace the engine coolant pump then you should be able to replace the CHS temp sensor located near the canister, if it still needs to be replaced. It makes sense to do one thing at a time.

    Regarding the fender liner plastic attachment hardware, there are various styles being used so your best bet is to order them from your local dealer, or else one of the dealers that sell parts over the web at 25% discount from MSRP.
     
  4. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    As I understand it Toyota offered to replace your models coolant pump for free no matter how many miles you had. The part didn't meet Toyota's mtbf. I would check into this. Plastic push pins should be generic just get them from service department.
     
  5. reighnman

    reighnman New Member

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    Hi guys, thanks for the reply.

    There is a 2nd water pump that was replaced while they did the inspection under a recent service bulletin, forgot the name of it but it's wasn't the water pump attached to the engine (the one currently leaking).

    I considered doing the water pump myself but all the documents I find refer to a special tool for the pump pulley, which looks to be $400+.. Is it possible to be done without the tool (SST 09960-10010)? The dealer quoted around $550 for the the labor/water pump/coolant and a new belt.

    As for the CHS, the pump looks pretty easy to DIY, just don't want to waste $130 bucks on it till I'm sure.
     
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. It really is unnecessary to obtain the SST. All that you have to do is to loosen the pump pulley bolts before you remove the serpentine belt. The old serpentine belt will hold the pulley in place, thus acting like the SST.

    2. The engine coolant pump should cost <$100 and the serpentine belt should cost ~$20 so you can save substantial $$$ by DIY.

    3. I agree that you should do one repair at a time. You can check the coolant sensor with an ohmmeter to see whether it is functional or not. Maybe the CHS pump is really the failed part as you have suggested. You can apply 12VDC to the pump terminals to see whether the pump works or not. Or you can just short the switched terminals of the CHS relay to activate the pump (I had previously posted how to replace engine coolant, which includes this step to fill the CHS canister.)
     
  7. reighnman

    reighnman New Member

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    Sounds like I better free up the weekend :)
     
  8. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Source? Which coolant pump? 2nd gen Prius have four of them.
     
  9. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Replace the engine water pump and get the cooling system filled and bled. That should fix the CEL, which is common when the coolant is either low or airlocked.
     
  10. reighnman

    reighnman New Member

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    We'll I replaced the water pump 2 weeks ago and bled all the air I could out of the driver side radiator port. Reset the codes and still have the same thing, so I just kept bleeding it every few days until there were no more air bubbles. Reset it again and same thing, so not sure where to go from here.

    Downside is now the registration is expired and I can't renew it until it has passed emissions, and of course got a ticket for expired registration. So now I have about 2 weeks to get all the codes cleared so I can pass emissions and get new stickers before court :eek:

    Can't believe all this trouble just because our prius can't pass emissions lol..

    On a side note I was able to replace the pump without the SST, but the belt wasn't able to hold the pully on its own. I ended up running some heavy gage wire through the pully and a hole on the engine block to keep it from moving. Would have been a quick job had I not snapped one of the studs because of my cheap torque wrench, so ended up spending a few days getting that fixed.
     
  11. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Did you drain the CHS tank as part of draining the coolant? Did you use Patrick's procedure to run the CHS pump when you were adding coolant back in? Are you confident that the CHS is full? Did you keep track of the amount of coolant that you added back in?

    What happens when you set the thermostat to 85 and turn on the heat full blast? Do you hear any gurgling, which is an indication that air is still in the system?

    It is always possible that you have a bad temperature sensor; however, with the leaking engine water pump, air in the system usually causes the sensor problem, assuming that the only trouble code is P1116. The system is extremely difficult to bleed without a scan tool and an AirLift. Alternatively, damage, such as the wife taking the car offroad to the sweet corn stand and ripping out the wheel liner, could have caused a problem with the connector for the sensor.
     
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  12. reighnman

    reighnman New Member

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    I did not drain the CHS tank, though I did follow Patrick's steps for testing the relay here. I didn't do a full coolant refill because I didn't believe it would resolve the issue without running the chs pump while filling and I saw some concern over a possible issue with the control valve. I'm fine with doing a full system flush as I have about 7 gallons of the Toyota coolant, just point me there :)


    I've ran the heater at max hot and do not hear any noises. Air gets hot pretty quickly as well.

    I inspected the harness and wires to see if there was any damage and it looked pretty clean, but I agree it is probably related to air in the tank and I'm just not bleeding it right. When my Wife gets home from work I'll drain some coolant from the tank and see what the temp looks like.
     
  13. reighnman

    reighnman New Member

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    Was able to drain some coolant from the tank today and its ice cold. Pump sounds like its running fine, so looking at possibly the coolant control valve?
     
  14. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Sounds like the CCV is bad.
     
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  15. reighnman

    reighnman New Member

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    Wouldn't it log a P1121/valve position stuck code though?
     
  16. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    It should. But if the pump runs at startup and shutdown, and there is no air in the system, and the coolant in the container is cold, then either the valve is bad or the hose connections have been changed. What codes do you have now? P1116 and P0137?
     
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  17. reighnman

    reighnman New Member

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    P1116 and P1118. I ordered the valve anyway since it was only 60 bucks at toyotaworld, I'll swap it out next weekend and bleed the system again, hopefully all will be good.
     
  18. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Okay, P1118 is the sensor or a wiring problem. Did you not also have P0137? These are both open circuit codes. The service manual mentions specifically checking the ground point at the ECM if there are other codes in addition to P1118. The temp sensor and O2 sensor share the same ground point, E2.
     
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  19. reighnman

    reighnman New Member

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    I did have a P0137 as well, which replacing the o2 didn't resolve so this is interesting. Though it still wouldn't explain why the coolant in the tank is cold unless both issues are happening. Where is the E2 ground point located or how can I test it?

    Unless the temp sensor actually is bad and is what's causing the ground fault creating the o2 code as well.
     
  20. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    E2 is the wire leading into the ECM, at pin #28 on connector E4. It is brown. I would think you'd have a lot more problems if the wire was broken at the ECM. But the temp sensor and hO2 sensor are at the farthest end, so I suggest tracing the brown wire from the coolant sensor back through the engine compartment, try to find where the brown wire from the hO2 sensor hooks in (near the fuse box I think) and see if there is anything going on.

    If the temp sensor might be causing a problem, then unplug it, reset the codes, and see if the CEL for P0137 comes back.