2010 SKS System

Do you have a pacemaker? Or a family member with a pacemaker? Because I've never heard of it being a problem disable switch or not. And trust me, if it had ever been a problem? I think I'd of heard about it in the past few weeks. I can't imagine ABC, CNN or most of the media would of missed the chance to run a headline like "Prius Causing Cardiac Arrest as Electronics Fry Pacemakers!".

If you really miss the disable switch and are concerned? Call the 1-800 customer service number at Toyota.

 

Yes, I have a cousin who has a new pacemaker defibulator and she on occasion does ride in the old 2007 Prius I had with her old pacemaker. It wasn't a problem then but this is now--new Prius design and new pacemaker. It also wasn't then and wouldn't be a problem now if there was a simple way to deactivate the system--like a button!

Once again if this wasn't any issue then why continue with the new model warnings. And if it recently has changed then I need a statement in writing from Toyota to prtect my sorry nice person if something still goes amiss in the future.

The deactivation process described above using the FOB is unacceptible--totally. If I could meet up with the person that came up with that deactivation/activation crap, and had the authority, I would fire is sorry nice person. And if that is the kind of company Toyota is turning into then they truely have lost it badly and will deserve what comes of it all.

I just got off the phone with Toyota Customer Service with these SKS questions/issues and I'm waiting for them to call back after they finish their research.

Just out of curiosity isn't there a fuse to pull that would disable just the SKS but still leave the remote functions intact? Since the SKS only works the drivers door (opt III)--my bad--I might just leave it permanently disabled too--but I don't really want to do that?

Do some other Ford, GM, Chrysler cars have similar door opening systems with similar pacemaker disclaimers/warnings?

 

Just got the callback from Toyota and they could only say that:
1. The SKS system operates at 134.2 KHz.
2. The person with the pacemaker needs to contact their doctor to see what frequency the pacemaker defibulator uses. [I wouldn't be surprised if there were not mutiple frequencies used--maybe not?]
3. The dealer can disable the SKS. [This probably means that the deactivation procedure posted above is accurate and insane.]

What will I do? Well, since there are other passengers I take in the car from time to time and I'm not going to ask them all whether they have a pacemaker that runs at 134.2 KHz I might disable the system. Until I did enough reading/research on this last night to learn that it was impossible I can't tell you how many times I yanked on the 5th door wishing it to open so I'll just stick solely to using the fob remote.

What do taxis and other people do--just ignore the potential problem? Customer Service couldn't tell me if there is anyone else with the same issue or if there have been any serious incidents. Well, I got a case # out of it which now leaves me taking on the whole risk if any I suppose, i.e., they know I know.

 

Transponder frequency is one thing, but more to the point would be required signal strength. If I am not mistaken, pacemakers are interrogated by putting a 'wand' on the skin right over the device.

 

I think this has been explained several times, but once again, what you do is forget about the legal CYA statement and get on with driving your car. It's the same with microwave ovens, cell phones, radio towers, WiFi enabled computers, coffee shops with WiFi, portable radios, kids toys, and almost everything electronic we use on a daily basis. Pacemakers are made to work in normal everyday environments. You Prius is a normal everyday environment.

Manufacturers like Toyota put CYA legal statements in manuals because their legal departments tell them they have too. If they don't, someone with a heart problem has a heart attack in one of their cars and all of a sudden they have to *prove* that it wasn't the fault of the SKS. It's easier and cheaper to put a warning in the manual.

If you have a pacemaker and you are worried about riding in a Prius, you had better sit at home in a Faraday cage. Otherwise the normal EMF in your house is going to get you first. The car ride is far more dangerous than the EMF from the SKS.

Tom

 

The devices are fairly rugged, require complex protocol/interaction, and is unlikely that the SKS will induce false activations. Much more likely are erroneous spurious signals that look like noise which can confuse the implanted device. Here is a case report of two situations - washer and power drill - where the ICD fired inappropriately. Really, as everyone else here has posted: do not worry about it. Be far more concerned everytime that person grabs an electronic equipment than standing next to your SKS-enabled Prius.

http://europace.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/7/2/193.pdf

Also, while there is no guarantee that other frequencies will not affect the device operation, the frequency band for which the device communicates is designated by the FCC as a "Medical Implant Communications Service" on the 402-405Mhz range.

http://www.medtronic.com/physician/conexus/WirelessTelemetryWhitePaper.pdf

 

I heard the SKS system overrides the cochlear implant, making the Prius even more silent than it already is :horn:

 

Thank you very much for this info. It's to bad Toyota has to leave you high and dry with their legal statements and can't point you to a more in depth--down to earth--discussion. This makes a lot more pratical sense now. I'm still going to pursue the discussion with the pacemaker manuafaturer in question here once I get that data. Of interest is your comment above indicating the Medical Implant Communications Service band of 402 to 405 Mhz. Was there an earlier point when older pacemakers operated at or around 134.2 KHz which is the frequency of Toyota's SKS? Thank you.

 

I'm not an expert, but early defibrillators were disabled with magnetic switches, not wireless transmission protocols. If any of these devices were designed to communicate wirelessly, they would have to have FCC approval, and the designated frequency band for such devices was the 402-405Mhz range as indicated in the white-paper. Again, such communication protocols have many inter-locks and safeties making it very unlikely that stray electromagnetic interference could re-program them. That said, any kind of electromagnetic radiation can confuse the device, either causing to pace pre-maturely or not at all. Such interference is not guaranteed by the FCC, and just because a device designed to communicate on the 402-405Mhz band does not mean it will be immune to interference from 134Khz sources.

Again, as many other posters have indicated, there is nothing to be concerned about. There are many pacemakers and defibrillators implanted in people these days and they are all safely surrounded by massive electronic radiating devices in our everyday lives. The legal warnings you read from Toyota is mostly a CYA statement which, if you looked hard enough, you could probably find on many other devices (check radio operated garage openers for one).

 

The comment on the 134.2 KHz signal is only half the story. The car broadcasts an "anybody there?" message on 134.2 KHz when the car is not turned on. Disabling SKS turns off this 134.2 KHz signal.

When you press a button on the keyfob, or the keyfob hears the 134.2 KHz query, then it sends a signal at 315 MHz. Note that 134.2 KHz is the same as 0.1342 MHz.

I echo the comments that the SKS system is a very unlikely source of problems with a pacemaker type device. I'd be a lot more concerned about electric motors and electrical switching devices. Or high tension power lines, particularly when an insulator is cracked or coated with salt spray.

 

The operating frequency of the SKS has never been an issue in regard to pacemakers. Simply the fact that the SKS radiates EMF at any frequency is enough to warrant the disclaimer in the user's manual.

All user's manuals in the U.S. are written this way. Kitchen appliance manuals tell you not to use the device outdoors or in the bath tub. Charcoal grill manuals tell you not to grill indoors. Every manufacturer attempts to avoid product liability, even if the liability appears ridiculous or unlikely.

I used to work for a pharmaceutical company. We had glass ampules that were labeled "NOT TO BE USED AS A SUPPOSITORY". Yikes!

Tom

 

So why does Toyota focus on the SKS? Why not, "Caution, if you or any passenger in your Prius has any electronic medical device be aware that there are many Prius electronic systems that potentially could cause Electro Magnetic Interference with those medical devices causing them to malfunction in some way. If you cannot accept this risk you can disable all EMI sources the car produces. Be further aware that this could leave your Prius inoperable." --> What do you think you filthy rich and paranoid Toyota lawyers?

 

You raise a good question. Some Prius also have Bluetooth, which is a potential source of interference. I suspect it all comes down to the parties involved in reviewing the manual. Pieces and parts of it have changed over time, and none of it is well written.

Tom

 

Well, that being the case of course will make it all the easier for someone who does need to take some legal action.

Maybe Toyota should rethink this while rethinking their interest in fixing problems on their cars BEFORE they become recalls and the news media and Congress go wild?

 

Final comments for me on this topic. I just talked to Medtronic who makes the pacemaker my cousin has and they were well aware from other callers and their design of the SKS Prius system risks. They said there are no concerns or risks so long as the person's implanted pacemaker does not come within 6 inches of the remote fob or the SKS system. In general she stressed that a person with a pacemaker shouldn't use any electronic/electrical device within 6 inches of the pacemaker.

FYI: If there is ever any accidental interaction going on, maybe like someone fainting and they have anything electrical or electronic near their chest you can make sure the device is moved away from them or move them away from it and the Medtronic pacemaker at least will reset itself and return to normal operation automatically. Just something to be conscious of should the need ever arise.

 

The six inch rule is just a general rule of thumb. Many RF emitting devices could come into contact with a pacemaker without causing trouble. On the other hand, some high powered military equipment could cause trouble from a half mile away. Generally you are safe with ordinary consumer electronics.

Some of the equipment I used to design would make lights flash in your eyes, without any electronic equipment in your body. Strong magnetic fields will induce currents in the human body.

Tom

 

We tend to think of radio interference as a modern day problem. Back about 40 years ago I had a friend with an amateur radio installation in his car. He used a motor-generator rig (a mechanical inverter in today's terms) to drive his transmitter at about 700 watts output. The radio worked on the 75 meter band, at a frequency of about 3.9 MHz. Since a simple 1/4 wave antenna would be about 66 feet long, a loading coil was required to tune the 8 foot long antenna. The loading coil was actually about half the length of the antenna, or about 4 feet of 1.5 inch diameter pole mounted on the rear bumper.

That radio would light up a 3 foot long florescent tube when it was several feet away from the antenna. No wires, just hold a bare tube near the antenna when the radio was transmitting. And we worry about a keyfob these days...

Anybody know what the operating frequency of DNA is? Please tell me it's not 60 Hz.

 

I got an email reply back from my cousin. She mentioned that Medtronic suggested she use her cell phone in her right hand--further from the pacemaker. I suggested that if she ever goes bluetooth she might want to use the right ear to hang the device on too. Got to stay outside that "magical 6 inch range". Yes, I read the comments. I was aware of much larger distances involved for higher power devices. I suppose if she were a Ham the doc might suggest she give up the hobby.

 

I don't know if it is the SKS that makes electromagnetic interference or any of the other electronic gadgets on the 2011 model but since I bought it I have headaches, dizzy spells, blurred vision and kind of stuff like these every time I ride this car. I had a 2008 Prius (base model) for 3 years and no problem of this kind.

Does anybody has ever heard of such problems with the 3d Gen Prius?
Thanks!

 

My Australian model has 3 door SKS. Maybe that's why we pay so much more than you.