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New 2001 Prius Owner, please help.. :)

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by thegadget, Feb 16, 2012.

  1. thegadget

    thegadget New Member

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    2001 Prius
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    One
    Well, if you would have asked several years ago while I was driving a 2001 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 (a beast of a car) if I would ever drive a prius, I would have laughed at you! Gas prices tend to influence our purchasing cars. I was originally looking for a 35mpg i4 car (civic, corolla, etc). Stumbled on this little one owner prius, and decided to get it. One owner, and only 86,000 miles. Ran good, and getting over 40mpg is insane! I have put about 600 miles on it already. I have been practicing driving carefully to maximize fuel economy.
    On the way home last night, I am driving 25-+mph on the electric only, just crest the hill before our house and the red/orange triangle comes on!! Gag! I pull out the code reader, no codes. No check engine light either. I get home stop the car, nothing seems out of the ordinary.

    When I try to start the car it takes at least three tries to get the READY status to start the car up. On the display it has a little red car with exclamation point on top of it. No other indicators are lit. Not sure what to do, I checked the aux battery after a 1 hour drive it is displaying 12.5 volts still connected to the system. I checked the Battery ECU under the passenger foot well, all very clean and dry. This car is immaculate, the inside looks brand new, no dust, nothing. Even under the carpet, there is no dust.
    Any help would be greatly appreciated! I have owned many cars, and have always worked on them. I have been working in the computer field for about 19 years. But hybrids are new to me, and I figured I would have this figured out, just cannot do it alone.. :)

    I have tried to search PriusChat, but the website is super slow!! I am barely able to post this message, and we have 50MB fiber circuit here!

    Thank you so much for your time! Josh

     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    could be the 12v, 12.5 might be borderline, depends on how and when you test it. what's the date code?
     
  3. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    There's just not enough info here to help you. Some questions for you:

    1) is the car running and driving fine?
    2) Is it still getting the same mpg as before?
    3) Is the engine always on or does it act normal (for a Prius)?

    Here's what I suggest based on what I know.

    Disconnect the negative lead of the 12v battery (in the trunk) for at least 30 seconds and reconnect (or better yet, connect jumper cables to your Prius battery from a "known" good battery). Turn the ignition switch to start and release. The warning lights should be gone (for a moment). See if the warning lights come back. If they come right back, you def have a problem. My guess is, they won't come back right away. If they do not, disconnect the jumper cables and drive it to see if they will come back on. If they do and the car runs fine, the most likely cause is the 12V battery. We know from experience that a weak 12v batt will cause all kinds of weird, intermittent problems when it is weak. Rule that out first. If that is determined not to be the cause, you will have to go to the dealer and get the codes read (many code readers cannot read some of the codes on the Prius).

    Good luck and let us know what happens.
     
  4. thegadget

    thegadget New Member

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    Thank you both for the replies. I just got the yellow top optima battery installed. Still have the Triangle.. :( The car runs and drives fine, I am getting about 42mpg, which seems normal since I have only had it for about 1000 miles. No difference in driving though. I do have to turn the key on then off then on again to start it.

    Right after I installed the new battery I got a P3191 code, which the battery company said might happen. I cleared it and it hasn't been back.

    Back when the triangle first appeared, I tried to start the car and turned the key back and forth back and forth a bunch (about 50 or more quickly) of times and I finally got a P3100 code. I cleared it about 120 miles ago. It has never reappeared. Now I am back to the triangle again, and I have no Idea what to do next.

    Who can read the other codes besides going to the dealer? They always seem to be out there to get you, and your arms, legs, etc. Thank you again so much! Oh, in diagnostic mode I am getting a 13.3-5v running, and 12.4-5v off with nothing running. Same voltage on the battery meter. Have a great day!
    Josh
     
  5. thegadget

    thegadget New Member

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    Oh, and were do I find the date code on the old battery? I found one 131208W on a white sticker on top of the battery. It looks brand new. Anyway, hope this helps.
     
  6. thegadget

    thegadget New Member

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    Well, from what I found it is the 13th of Dec, 2008 on the battery. So a little over 4yrs old. Oh well, I sure wish the triangle would go away!!
     
  7. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    P3100 is a HV ECU malfunction with about 90 subcodes that probably only the dealer can decifer for you.
    P3191 I believe is a "did not start" code and most are caused by the fuel pump or main ECU or fuel pump relay.
    I had a P3191 on my 2k3 and just cleared it as I was starting it and as soon as I heard the motor start pulled it into gear without letting it get running properly.
     
  8. thegadget

    thegadget New Member

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    Ok, just tried a few things, connected known good battery to the prius aux battery. Same Triangle but no more engine codes. A few other things I tried:
    1. Voltage sitting with battery maintainer connected key on Assc: 14.8v
    2. Turning Key to ON and battery maintainer connected, not starting: 12.5V (I Checked all fluids, the Inverter coolant was at full and has a nice swirly thing going on, good curculation)
    3. All coolant levels are full, and looking great!
    4. We have been getting HUGE down pours here in Texas. It has been dry for a long time, and now we are having tons of fog, rain and moisture. Just wanted you guys to know. I did for the fun of it, clear codes in the diagnostic area again. Everything was listed in OK.

    Still lost. Thank you for your help. :)
     
  9. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    The only way you can truly find out what is causing the triangle is by going to the dealer. They have a system called Techstream which can read all codes on the Prius. If it is running fine, and getting 42 mpg, the problem is most likely minor (fingers crossed). I would take it to the dealer, ask them to read the codes and pay them for that only. Then you can decide what to do based on that info.

    Unfortunately, Techstream is too expensive for most non dealer service shops
     
  10. Saquibs2004

    Saquibs2004 New Member

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    I'm getting the same triangle and car with exclamation mark but the car drives fine with 40mpg. When I connected to a OBD2 reader, I didn't get any codes. I'm hoping it is something minor because I'm not willing to pay the dealer over $100 for just reading the code.
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If you pick up a ScanGauge II and program it with the Xcodes from this thread, you can read a lot of the important codes from the Prius. There are some ECUs it still can't talk to, but those have alternate query methods where you can jumper a plug and read light blinks as covered in the shop manual.

    If you register on techinfo.toyota.com for the one or two day rate, which is pretty cheap, you can download and use the Techstream software on your computer, which can read everything the dealer can. You'll need to spend a few hundred on a J2534 hardware dongle to connect the computer to the car, but that's yours to keep. Techinfo is also where you can read/download the shop manual, if you don't have or buy a printed/bound copy.

    Your Prius is a great car and you should definitely get your money's worth out of it, but just hoping trouble codes are minor instead of finding out what they are might not be the best way to do that.

    Hope this helps,
    -Chap
     
  12. thegadget

    thegadget New Member

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    Thank you for your replies. I actually got around 49.3 mpg last fill up. So far everything is still working. I think this weekend I may pull the HV battery and inspect the batteries. Thanks again, I will keep you guys posted.
     
  13. thegadget

    thegadget New Member

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    Ok, I called the dealer here. They are going to charge $95 for the Diagnostic Fee. I was also looking around for scanguage 2 as well. Do you know the best place to purchase them? The best deals I have found are $159 on ebay and amazon. Any other suggestions?

    Thanks!
     
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    You can get one for $159.95 from the PriusChat Shop and support this forum! :thumb:

    -Chap
     
  15. thegadget

    thegadget New Member

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    Well, I was on the way home yesterday, and I got the power loss that everyone talks about. I had it floored and was only going about 37 mph. No Check engine lights or anything. Just the nice triangle. I pulled over, and turned it off, then back on again, and everything worked great again. The only time I have had issues, is when I try to get the best milage by only using electric power. I was just wondering about the gas/electric pedal. Is there issues with it not working? I noticed a few threads about a guy on here that rebuilds them. What exactly happens if it isn't working correctly? It seems that the car functions great with cruise control engaged. Just a thought. :)
     
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    It sounds like you might have experienced Big Hand Syndrome - when you mash the go pedal and still feel as if there's a big invisible hand holding the car back.

    If it's really BHS, it happens because the go pedal is really just a sensor that sends a voltage to the ECU proportional to how far you press it, and it gets dirty the same way as volume knobs on old stereos. Have you ever had one that made scratchy noises when you turned it, or stayed really soft or really loud, or stayed really soft except for patches of REALLY LOUD when you crossed them? This is the same thing. It's fixed by cleaning inside the control, only the Prius go pedal isn't made to be taken apart, so you can't do that without cutting it open and gluing it when you're done. Officially you would just replace the part, but it seems to be expensive enough to drive some people to cutting it open.

    Cruise control would still work fine at maintaining your set speed, because it does that without paying any attention to the signal from your go pedal.

    Before cutting anything open you'd want to be sure that really was the problem. It's also possible the ECU has detected something else wrong and gone into a low-power limp-home mode. If you're seeing a triangle, the ECU has detected something wrong. You won't want to skip finding out what that is.

    If you have a ScanGauge II, you can see the thread I linked earlier for Xgauge programming to query the HV ECU INF codes as well as the diagnostic trouble codes. You will also find Xgauge programming for Acceleration Sensor Main and Acceleration Sensor Sub. These show the actual voltages coming back from the go pedal, so you can press the pedal over the full range and see if you're getting the right range of voltages. Main and Sub are two independent sensors built into the pedal, so the ECU can compare them and fall back to a safe mode if they don't match. (Don't quote me on 'match' - they might be set up the same way as the steering sensors, where one goes from low voltage to high and the other from high to low for the same direction. The principle's the same - the ECU knows what the relationship between the two is supposed to be, and can tell there's a problem if it isn't.)

    Owing to a bug in (at least some versions of) ScanGauge II, you might not be able to have the Main and Sub Xgauges showing on the display at the same time, but only one or the other at a time.

    -Chap
     
  17. thegadget

    thegadget New Member

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    One
    Thank you Chapmanf, I decided to disect the throttle assembly myself. I pulled it out, cleaned it with electrical cleaner. I also adjusted the "fingers" and put it all back together. It is pretty funny just realizing that the trottle is just a "volume knob". Anyway, also added dielectric grease (super small amounts) to all the connections to resist futher build up. It has been acting much better on the trottle responce. Tryed to clear the triangle by pulling the battery cable and also using code reader to erase unexistant codes. It still Bings after it is done and instantly causes the triangle to pop on again. I am going to have to save up a little while to get the scanguage in my budget or the visit to the dealer. I just keep hoping the triangle will just disappear. So far no luck.

    Only thing I did notice when I first start the car the engine sounds like it goes a little fast, then slow, a little faster then slower only on initial startup. It feels like the electric motor is pushing the car forward even though it is in park. Very odd, it started doing this the day the Triangle popped up.

    Also I hear a relay clicking under the stearing column when this is happening, click...click, click...click.. random clicking in out. I cannot seem to find the relay, just a little odd. Thank you guys again for your patience.
     
  18. 20011Prius

    20011Prius New Member

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    I just went through same issue as yours and I have read all the posting as I can find on line. I think I know the fix.

    Root cause: Spark plug hole is filled with water due to bad design of new windshield cover. Heavy rain will fill the water at the Spark plug hole and make misfire code to stop the engine.

    Fix: Replace the spark plug and do not drive in the rain. Dealer charged $400 for oil change, replace the spark plug and clean the throttle valve, air flow sensor.

    Red Triangle Problem goes away for 2 days so far. I have 202000 miles on the car and current MPG is 48.9.