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Maya Demise Due To Drought?

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by zenMachine, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    The scientists found that rainfall in the region decreased episodically for periods as long as a decade at a time.

    "Our results show rather modest rainfall reductions between times when the Classic Maya civilization flourished and its collapse between 800 to 950," said researcher Eelco Rohling, a paleoclimatologist at the University of Southampton in England. "These reductions amount to only 25 to 40 percent in annual rainfall, but they were large enough for evaporation to become dominant over rainfall, and open water availability was rapidly reduced. The data suggest that the main cause was a decrease in summer storm activity."

    The timing of these dry spells might help explain why modest reductions in rainfall still may have helped cause the demise of a well-established civilization.

    "Summer was the main season for cultivation and replenishment of Maya freshwater storage systems and there are no rivers in the Yucatan lowlands," Rohling said.


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012...ilization-traced-to-dry-spells/#ixzz1nV5BfgGa
     
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  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    If you are interested in this topic, you can readily find other similar studies. Angkor Wat in Cambodia was architecturally hi tech (in its day), but those guys seemed to vanish suddenly. That was the original impetus for Ed Cook's MADA monsoon Asia Drought Atlas.

    I don't know if there has been similar work on the Hohokam who also suddenly faded from what we now call Arizona. Would have to check.

    There are several articles discussing dynastic change in China, on the thesis that they were triggered at least in part by large environmental variations. In that case, there are written records, not only paleoproxies like tree rings, cave speleothems, sediment and ice laminations and such like. Te Chinese have been writing (and storing what they wrote for an unusually long time. Still beyond me to read the stuff though :)

    Back to Maya land, those soils have remarkably poor water-holding capacity. I have picked up wood cross sections from there (3 or 4 inches in diameter) that reveal hundreds of growth rings. Those are surely not annual rings; we know the wood grows not so slowly there. Instead they are 'storm rings'. The soil is briefly moist after rain, trees throw down some wood, and then they go back to sleep until the next rain comes. It fascinated me, but I was never in the right circumstance to study it properly and write a paper.

    It may be one of those things that plant physiologists 'don't know that they don't know'.
     
  3. evnow

    evnow Active Member

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  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I have not read Fagan's book but the information available at Amazon make it look quite interesting.There we get the impression that he relies upon Mann's paleoclimatic contruction of the medieval warm period (climate anomaly as some prefer). But also, that he demonstrates drought during the time was essentially of global extent and with substantial consequences.
     
  5. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    Did the Mayans have climate change deniers too?

    Their demise has long been blamed on drought, the new information that the article talks about is how small the reduction in rainfall was from the norm. It's worth reading.
     
  6. PriusSport

    PriusSport senior member

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    It was drought. Saw a documentary about it a few years ago. They proved it with layers of soil dating back to the Mayan period. I think that's how they did it; it was convincing.

    It shows how civilizations can get wiped out by climate change--natural or man-made.
     
  7. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    perhaps they had some denied that human sacrifice could bring back a good harvest.

    The mayan people didn't disappear, but the civilization ended. You have to ask even with disease and famine brought on by drought, what stopped the kingdoms. Did the population explosion cause over farming then problems like the great plains during the dust bowl during drought? Did this make people lose faith in their kings? We can at least learn that long periods of drought are normal, and plan to bring food into drought stricken areas.
     
  8. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    Sounds to me like their kings upped and left and the people just dispersed.

    Interesting that Mayans lived in an area with not many rivers and thus had to depend on rainfall for their most critical resource.

    Today's civilization faces not just a potential water shortage problem but also an energy one.

    Btw, In our town we've been living under Stage 3 Water Restrictions for months due to the drought. That means you can water your lawn only one day a month.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what's the point?
     
  10. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    The drought in Texas has caused plenty of economic distress, and it's been going on less than a year. Farmers are hurting, crop yields are way below average. If this keeps up who knows what other bad consequences might follow.
     
  11. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Of researching the demise of previous civilisations? We might learn something about our own.
     
  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The Maya also faced an energy crisis of sorts. Plaster floor stones needed a fire of about 20 trees to create, in later constuctrion these stones got thin, because of lack of fuel source trees. The mayans had chopped down the trees and created there own energy crisis. This deforestation is now being partially blamed for exacerbating the drought.

    Texans need to brace themselves for a repeat of the decade without rain that people experienced in the 50s.
    Some Climatologists Worry That Texas' Mega-Drought Could Endure for Years - NYTimes.com
    It may not be that bad, but farmers and water management people need to plan. It won't be nearly as bad as the 50s since there is more of a food safety net built in, but there are many more texans this time around also.

    If the spanish priests hadn't burnt all the books, well 4 remain, we would have a good idea of how the mayan civilization prospered and declined. The lessons of deforestation and over farming don't require these books though.
     
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  13. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    WASHINGTON (AP) – Federal weather forecasters say the La Niña climate phenomenon that contributed to the southwestern U.S. drought is winding down.

    The National Weather Service's Climate Prediction Center says La Niña is showing signs that it will be over by summer. Center deputy director Mike Halpert said that's too late for the U.S. Southwest because the rainy season will be over by that time...

    http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/story/2012-02-09/la-nina/53031848/1
     
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  14. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, the article goes on to say
    So next year's rainfall will either be better or worse, or possibly the same.
     
  15. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    If you look at Texas in 2009 it was a drought year, 2010 had normal rainfall, 2011 was a severe drought. Looking at ENSO they can already see that 2012 will be a drought year also, and this will be particularly bad in West Texas. Its doubtful that rainfall will be as low as 2011, but because there is already stress, it may make it a worse drought. Central and eastern texas should get more rainfall but below normal. As the article says 2013 will likely be better or worse than 2012 with more of an ENSO contribution, but its too early to tell either way. If its a bad year, then texas will have 4 out of 5 years of drought. Farmers need to react and either not plant, or plant crops that can live in the drought conditions.

    If crops could not be brought in from outside, texas would not be able to sustain its population. This was a problem for the Mayans, but not a problem for texas today. If anything the population could stand to be a little less nourished.
     
  16. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    Cotton is a major crop for Texas. Those folks have been hit pretty hard. Plus, the state also lost some tax revenue.

    On the other hand, many business and home owners will need to resuscitate their lawns and gardens, so that's good news for nurseries and lawn care services, I suppose.
     
  17. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    It's an opportunity to replace lawns with something more drought tolerant.
     
  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    A rather strong argument could be made that (at least) for the first half of this century, water supply to population centers will be more urgent than any response needed for temperature ...excursions.

    For developed countries, the largest water demand is agriculture, then thermal power plants, then industry, then domestic use...have I got that order right?

    A technological breakthrough substantially lowering the energy cost of desalination would make somebody very, very rich...

    (Aside) does anyone else remember a drought in southern California when lawn-watering was banned, lawns died, and at least one company did well (for a while) spray painting the dead grass green?
     
  19. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    There was a drought when I lived in San Jose, CA. They requested a voluntary cutback of 15% on water usage and got a 20% response. Our reward for being good citizens was an increase in water rates because the water company wasn't making enough money on such low consumption.
     
  20. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I don't know for countries but for texas, which is different than the US, but a drought state, in 2009 with water restrictions
    60% Irrigation
    27% municipal (homes and offices)
    7% manufacturing
    3% power plants
    2% Livestock
    1% Mining

    We use a lower percentage of coal, and natural gas and wind don't need all that much water for power generation. South Texas will soon be fracking for natural gas on a large scale and that will use a significant amount of water, which is one of the main environmental concerns as the project goes forward.

    Definitely

    I don't know about that but when there still was an USSR, its army spent a great deal of time painting the dead grass.

    We get those things all the time. Necessary here, probably not in the bay area.