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Other fuel sources...

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Keiichi, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. Keiichi

    Keiichi Active Member

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  2. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The good thing about using biomass and biogas is eliminating waste. It doesn't really displace that much energy, but putting it in landfills is piling up the pollution.
     
  3. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Class Clown

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    Wow, they ought to require all vehicles in Washington DC to run on "biomass". There is more B.S. in that part of the country than the entire western hemisphere.

    Keith
     
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  4. Keiichi

    Keiichi Active Member

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    Well, I did say it was one of the more 'readily available' type alt fuels out there, the problem is just not very much has been done with it. It has been talked about for years, but goes towards also the whole NG thing too, since, I recall, methane is one of the general byproducts from bio waste and collectively, a lot of us make enough to be useful in some form or way.
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Methane - biogas - is one of the top ghg pollutants. When it burned it goes to CO2 and water and has a much lower envirnomental impact. Methane can easily be created from biomass as well through anerobic digestion. There is plenty to make a big impact on both warming and pollution.

    Methanol can also be created from much wood, paper, and crop waste. It is fairly easy to convert methanol to methane and the reverse.

    The only thing lacking is capital equipment and collection. This is often more expensive than simply buying fracked natural gas. My local utility is collecting biogas from landills and then pumping it to used in electric generation. Federal law now requires that this biogas is collected or burned, but most landfills simply flare it off.
     
  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    That must be the GM rickshaw

    I prefere the Prius rickshaw, if I had MY 'druthers . . . . .

    ;)






    [​IMG]

    You gotta give it to the Chinese . . . they do like to copy things, on the super cheap program.
    .
     
  7. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Unfortunately, the type of methane produced in DC is the highly noxious type. By the time you filter out the rubbish, hateful rhetoric, and stupid comments, all you have left is enough to run a single Vespa.

    Tom
     
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There are dairy and other livestock farms that make use of it for heat and power, but most farmers generally aren't the type to have excess cash lying around. There are low tech, low cost approaches, but they are only good for heat. For electricity and vehicles you need the equipment to compress it. I don't think a Harbor Freight air compressor is going to work.
     
  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The local municipal utility did this because they got to pass along the small extra cost to their customers, and the customers were happy since it was much less than a penny.

    Here is an example from a dairy farm in england
    Dairy farm installs biogas plant - Biomass Energy

    It may work there because the farm is large enough and their is a feed through tarrif. In california and ny were electricity is very expensive feedthrough tarrifs may make sense.

    For those large livestock factory farmst, there is a great deal of pollution, but there is not a cost given. Like landfills these would do better with regulation. There is politics involved here, and I doubt they will be forced to reduce ghg.
     
  10. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Put 10,000 donkeys and mules on "hampster wheels," connect to generators, and use to recharge batteries. Divert crop land from biofuels to feed these animals. Problem solved. :)

    And the "biomass" from these animals can fuel the "EREV" "lawnmower" engines. :D

    (Ancient Romans used donkeys, walking in circles (think of pony rides today), with the wheel turning gears that ground grain in their mills)

    ...of course, this works too:
    [​IMG]
    photo credit: http://www.cybersalt.org/funny-car-pictures/horsepower-backfire
     
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  11. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Also, compost piles produce a SIGNIFICANT amount of heat. In fact, some compost piles I've seen on public television / Discovery Channel / History Channel have produced temperatures so hot that they are too hot to touch (deep on the inside of the pile, since the rest of the pile acts like thermal insulation). This is clear evidence of energy - energy that can be harnessed. Perhaps an experimental house that is surrounded by compost pile in Spring and Fall to see if it can provide sufficient warmth. At minimum, it functions as insulation.

    I see I've gone off topic from automotive fuel. Perhaps the raw materials - unused lettuce, orange peels, banana peels, and so forth can be processed into a fuel.
     
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They can actually catch fire. Which would make them a bad choice to surround a house with directly.
    Some landfill energy plants use the methane coming off an old, buried pile. Others seperate the mentioned materials, along with other burning stuff, for a biomass plant.

    If thermal depolymerization can convert turkey guts, feet, beaks, and feathers into a fuel oil, no reason it can't be used with other feedstock when we are pressed .
     
  13. Keiichi

    Keiichi Active Member

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    You do realize, anything can catch fire... Not just composting heaps, but just the tree next to your house/apartment... The neighbor's pet... The Neighbor...
     
  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Are you talking about spontaneous human combustion? bio digesters can be used to speed the process, but I doubt we have the political will to convert your neighbor into biomass and biogass.:D
     
  15. Keiichi

    Keiichi Active Member

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    His worry is that they will catch fire. Thing is, I'm pretty sure the activation heat is a bit more than he thinks, otherwise, that criteria would also fit.
     
  16. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Gotcha. I just though the neighbor catching fire was funny.

    The digesters are enclosed and the biogas collected. I'm sure it would be more expensive here, but this is about $600 converted to us currency.

    A Small-Scale Biodigester Designed and Built in the Philippines by Gerry Baron

    You can build digesters for just about any organic matter, but maintenance costs will be much higher if you just throw in any waste.
     
  17. Keiichi

    Keiichi Active Member

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    Well, it was part of my humor.
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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  19. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Hey my cousin had his compost pile catch on fire and burn part of his fence:D The heat can ignight the biogas. A digester is more complicated than just a pile and should not have a good chance of fire. ITs important to have a container during decomposition so that the flamible biogas can't just light nearby objects on fire when heated by the decaying compost. On those large fires it would not take much money. Anearobic bacteria are introduced so that oxygen from the environment is not needed for decomposition.