GM's new CNG trucks

What a disappointment. 11K premium. They really don't want to sell these do they?

 

I think there is a $4K tax credit, someone check this. That makes it $7K or 3500 gallons of gas until payback. If we assume 20mpg it is 70,000 miles. But it seems like this should be a much cheaper system. Isn't it just a tank some switches and plumbing, injectors and programming.

 

here in europe, they will convert anything you want from $1k to $3k, LPG

 

What a disappointment.

 

By the time you option a truck out to something resembling a modern vehicle (like electric windows) it will run at least $30,000. Then add the $11K for CNG operation. Truxks are friggen expensive!

 

Probably the same here, unless you are in California. That is LPG though. CNG is under higher pressures, and thus require stronger components. I once heard a story of it taking $10,000 to convert a CNG truck back to gasoline.

GM isn't offering a conversion here though, but a dual fuel CNG/gasoline truck. In addition to the CNG tank, lines, fuel rail, injectors, and controls to switch fuel source, the engine might need at least part of its top end replaced to handle the two fueling systems.

It is still pricey, but may be do to lower production.

 

And even though you run CNG as a dual fuel, you can't even get HOV solo driving white stickers - because solo car pool lane stickers require being able to ONLY run CNG ... not CNG alternatively. Often, dual fuel systems (gas & LPG or CNG) get worse mileage too.

 

yeah, LPG is the same - dual, with its own lines, injectors, etc, etc... can you get LPG in US?

CNG should be more expensive components but cheaper gas.

 

We have LPG here. It's even commonly used to fuel forklifts. With its use for heating and cooking, finding a fueling station for a truck might easier than one for CNG.

When it comes to street vehicle use here, conversion usually means switching from one fuel to another. CNG is popular with fleets that can put in their own pumps because of cost. LPG price tends to follow heating oil. So the vehicle will lose some distance per gallon with a fuel that costs the same or more than gasoline.

GM's price is high. But it's the first time a factory CNG vehicle has been offered outside of fleet sales, and the first dual fuel one offered. With limited production, emission certification, and possibly using a third party for the conversions, the price isn't shocking. I'm sure if it becomes a popular option, the price can come down.

 

LPG either comes from petroleum refining or more and more from natural gas. IIRC in california one of the biggest alt fuel states it is mainly from refining. If you want to get off of oil, then CNG is a much more direct route, that is why people advocate CNG for trucks and busses.

The easiest liquid to produce with CNG is methanol which requires less energy and expense than lpg, but the ethanol lobby has reduced its use.

It is a third party conversion.

 

It's not made to sell but to game the CAFE requirements. GM will make enough to get it's fleet rating and farm them to a fleet customer for a discount.

A good argument for using higher taxes on oil vs. mandating efficiency.

 

The base Honda Civic CNG is $11k higher than the base gasoline Civic also. It's not even bi-fuel.

 

Well, when unblended ethanol is less toxic and is more energy dense. Plus, it doesn't have an invisible flame.

Of course, those are also reasons on why butanol is better than ethanol.