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Laser cut key cutter - Options?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by h00ktern, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. GreenMaterialism

    GreenMaterialism Junior Member

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    Congrats on the machine! Glad to hear that the locksmith was such an upstanding businessman - there are such good people out there, and it's always wonderful to run into one.

    I'll send you a PM shortly about getting some keys cut! Thanks again for making the PC community even more awesome.
     
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  2. GreenMaterialism

    GreenMaterialism Junior Member

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    PM sent - but it's not showing up in my "sent messages" folder, so just let me know if you didn't get it!
     
  3. h00ktern

    h00ktern Member

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    PM received.

    Just so you all know, we're working on an initial procedure now. I want to address concerns I have:

    1) First instill incontrovertible confidence in me, known only as "h00ktern" to you. Given the nature of the net, no one can be certain who they are dealing with. I think we are handling this now, and my reputation will only develop with confidence. GreenMaterialism has been given information that he will verify. It's a start, word of mouth will reinforce it later.

    2) Work out concerns relating to a lost package and how that could impact someone. Shipping is beyond my control, but there are insurance options that could be employed to reduce risk. More on that later.

    3) Handle this offer in a way that inconveniences me the least. I am not doing this as a business. I already have a job. Since Toyota shanked me for what amounts to 90% profit on a cut key, I am inclined to offer a reasonable alternative.

    I will update this thread as appropriate.

    Safe trips
     
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  4. GreenMaterialism

    GreenMaterialism Junior Member

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    Yes indeed - just to confirm, I sent one of my mechanical keys to h00ktern for duplication yesterday. I'll be sure to repost on the experience when I get the copies back, but he's been 100% awesome to work with so far. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions!
     
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  5. rrg

    rrg Active Member

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    h00ktern,
    PM sent.

    Mine is on it's way.

    So far my experience has been very good with PM conversations and his methodology of the process is very well thought out.

    He gives a great deal of importance to this effort and has different scenarios to ensure the person gets a key back.

    I'll give more info when it returns.

    Thanks,
    rrg
     
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  6. rrg

    rrg Active Member

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    Sorry for the back to back post but the new keys arrived at home.

    My review and results for h00ktern on his Prius Laser Key Duplication:

    The Key(s) Made Both Work!

    1.) I decided to have two keys made. A cheap ebay key blank and a more expensive close to OEM key blank.
    2.) The Ebay key has surface imperfections (see pic) like tiny divots and more scratches.
    3.) OEM like key is more smooth in finish and matches closer to original in looks.
    4.) When I first tried them for the first time they went in a tiny bit more rough. Not 100% silky smooth like original. This I would consider normal on most new, fresh cut keys. The cut edges are sharp and less worn than a used key.
    5.) Both keys worked perfectly.

    Packaging and Shipping:

    Here is what I did:
    1.) I had some bubble wrap envelopes that happen to be static free from some PC parts I received. I cut the thin bubble package to 4x6.
    2.) Tape the Prius key to the middle of a piece of cardboard.
    (Important because most keys will float around in the envelope and poke a hole in the material and fall out in transit.)
    3.) Stuffed it in a manila envelope with $$ and with my return address. It's about 4x8 now.
    4.) I wrapped and taped the whole thing in flat cardboard (cardboard is thickness of a cereal box) with the Ship to address.
    5.) Now you need to have the packaged weighed two times, postage for each way.
    6.) One time postage with the cardbard, envelope, key (Ship to) and a 2nd time with the return package alone but with extra keys (use any key from home) on top to get the postage and weight correct on the return.
    7.) I paid extra for Delivery Confirmation Receipt .85 cent more (green sticker) NJ to FL. This tells you it got there.
    8.) The return manila envelope with the bubble wrap was stamped FIRST CLASS parcel.
    9.) I went cheap both ways and no expedited package on it at 2.90oz. Cost me between $5 -$10.
    10.) Turn around 8 days.

    My Experience With this Transaction

    I would have to say 100% satisfaction.
    1.) I was given options based on what blanks are out there with different prices.
    2.) He provided me with scenarios if I only had one key and no dealer tag. This he explained by holding back an extra key until you confirmed you got delivery of the first one and it worked. Then he would send the second original one out. Extra postage but safer.
    3.) With the proper packaging, return package inside, he was able to turn around the work the same day. No delays.
    4.) His attention to detail and importance to this effort really gave me a sense of comfort to send my key out to him

    Any questions post or PM me.

    The Prius Chat site has not let me down with great people I have had transactions with.

    Nice job.
    rrg.
    PS: i covered a part of the key for security issues.
    It's unique under that black line.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. GreenMaterialism

    GreenMaterialism Junior Member

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    Just to confirm, I got my keys back quite speedily as well. I'm in 100% agreement with what's been said above... On the first couple tries, they keys go into the lock cylinder a bit harder than the ones that came with the car, but after putting them in a few times, it becomes much easier. (Something that is common with any freshly cut keys I think!)

    Now I'm living large with multiple spare keys, which just helps to simply life one tiny bit more. h00ktern has been AWESOME to deal with before, during, and after the cutting. He's doing a swell favor for us PriusChatters, and I can't recommend him enough. (Especially when considering that the primary other option is the stealership!) He's become incredibly knowledgable about the nuances of different key blanks and materials, and may well wind up doing a better job than the dealership.

    Any questions or concerns, feel free to PM me as well...
     
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  8. h00ktern

    h00ktern Member

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    Thank you guys - you have been an essential part of testing the waters. I hope to have a few more reviews up soon.

    In the interim, I have been asked about possible alternative blanks. Specifically, flat with standard, or large heads. I have located a possible substitute. I have not verified it will work as yet, and it will need modification to the tip, and perhaps the length.
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  9. h00ktern

    h00ktern Member

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    A few updates:

    GreenMaterialism and I have discussed his tight fitting keys. After looking at excellent scaled photos that he took, and conversing several times in the past week, we came to the conclusion that one of the cuts did not reach far enough to the head. He agreed to send me his key again so I could troubleshoot.

    The key arrived today and I was quickly able to identify the problem. Silca lists a 2.5mm tracer point and cutter for the Prius sidewinders, however, when I mic'd GM's key, it came in at +-2.25mm. The issue was not being able to mill past where the slot narrowed.

    I checked online, and Silca lists an available tracer point/cutter bit at 2.0mm - I am going to buy the T44/F44 set tomorrow. Then I am going to recut all of his keys. I am confident this will solve the tight fitting key issue.

    Lastly, I figured out how to mill and modify the new flat blanks to approximate the size and profile of the OEMs. It's a several step process that takes a bit of time, but I think it will work out. GreenMaterialism is getting one of these also, so I will let him report back with his observations. Here is a picture from my "h00ktern" album:

    [​IMG]

    Safe trips,
    Dave
     
  10. GreenMaterialism

    GreenMaterialism Junior Member

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    Greetings! I just got my second set of keys back from h00ktern, and I can report the following...

    The new keys that he made (cut with his new, smaller bit) are ABSOLUTELY PERFECT. No joke - they slide into the lock cylinder with no resistance at all, can be inserted in either direction, and lock and unlock the doors smoothly and reliably.

    To be honest - I'm very particular about small details - and I can say with 100% certainty that this latest batch of keys he cut for me are completely indistinguishable from the oem mechanical keys that came with my Prius new. They're really that good. Both functionally and visually they are perfect.

    ALSO - I opted to have h00ktern cut me a key from one of the flat key blanks (as pictured above), so that I could keep it on a keyring like a traditional key. (The keyfob keys hang awkwardly and take up too much space...) This key works identically to the other new cuts; it's perfect.

    Overall, I couldn't be happier with the keys. So if anyone else wants a spare key, definitely hit up h00ktern... In fact - I might even suggest that he change his PC handle to "KeyMaster"... Seriously - the keys are perfect, and he's a swell guy to work with.




    ----Post Script-----

    I understand that these types of lock cylinders are sensitive to small variations, and the first keys he cut for me worked, but took some extra effort to push fully into the lock cylinder. Not so with these new ones - they really are perfect.

    In fact - I'm now shocked that NONE of my local locksmiths have one of these machines... I have no idea what one costs, but they're clearly available, and work flawlessly. The two locksmiths I visited have large retail storefronts, many employees, and dedicated service vehicles... Yet they can't be bothered to pick up one of these little machines that can perfectly duplicate the necessary keys for most new cars? Strange. Thankfully for the PC community, h00ktern has picked up the slack - good work man!
     
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  11. h00ktern

    h00ktern Member

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    I am very appreciative and humbled by your praise. It has been my pleasure to work with you (and other) forum members. When I started this thread - about two months ago, I did not know what I would learn. Without the assistance of GreenMaterialism and rrg in particular, the lessons learned would have not have come as quickly or as painlessly as they did. I must also thank Andy at Lockey Distributors (Miami, FL) for his splendid service - he is awesome to work with and I recommend him highly.

    I believe that as a result of the above, I can confidently move forward and offer forum members an economical alternative to the laser key cutting conundrum plaguing Gen3 Prius owners. Aside from the initial cost of the equipment, blanks, labor & shipping are nowhere near the $100 dealer charge that I originally paid - and no PC member should feel compelled to pay those prices ever again :rockon:

    PM me if you are in a jam. I will gladly help you out.

    Safe trips,
    Dave
     
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  12. Sfork

    Sfork Junior Member

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    Hey hook thanks offering to help me in my other thread with the cylinder changing.

    You said you were looking for alternative blanks. I just had a locksmith cut me about 5 keys in the emergency size for my taxi fleet. His boss came in asking Wth these are for every day? Just use a Toyo P18. Knowing I was going to be a return customer the locksmith tested it out and it works fine! he let me keep the test one. http://i.imgur.com/sGW5N.jpg

    We also had a problem with the emergency keys not going in. You have to file the corner away slightly. http://i.imgur.com/LoL3H.jpg I've marked it here. It's something to do with the hole and something in the door going through it, So it needs a track of sorts
     
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  13. h00ktern

    h00ktern Member

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    Great tip on the 18P. I'll look them up next time I get some more blanks.

    It seems there is a desire for either the OEM TOY51P (fits into the fob,) a diminutive flat key for a key ring (the one I now modify), and perhaps the 18P you just suggested. I know rrg asked about a wider/larger head for cold weather mitt use; your 18P might fit the bill perfectly (fyi, there is also a TOY48_ that may work, but I have not tried it yet.)

    As far as the triangular hole at the tip of the key - I was under the impression it was just for the holding pin in the fob; I'll check it out by: a) cutting a mini flat blank without it and see what occurs, b) check with my locksmith.

    I know 100% that GreenMaterialism's issue (tight fit) was the cutter diameter - Silca is wrong about the 2.5mm spec. Also, his blanks were profiled correctly; the picture you referred to is from rrg and his worked fine with the slagged tip hole (the cheapest blank I could find.)

    I think I may have one more unmodified flat key left. If I do, I'll leave the tip solid (but with the ramp & profile) and post the results.

    Safe trips,
    Dave

    Edit: I just checked the photo again and I think you added the red marks (the 'V' so to speak) - got it, but not the issue with my keys - I 'trace' that part also, and all my duplicates are profiled to OEM, if they are not already.
     
  14. rrg

    rrg Active Member

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    That's good you found the larger key head.
    I went and bought a Lexus empty fob key for $4.95 shipped from ebay.

    JB welded one of my extra key blades in the empty shell head after some dremel work.
    It lays vertical in the head not the traditional horizontal, flat way.

    I needed to remove a little plastic on the prius key head to ensure it fit and still had plenty of surface for the glue to touch.

    Works great with the intended purpose of mits and frozen locks.

    I'm hoping to avoid that cold, frozen morning with a dead battery and having to open the door with that toothpick of a key :)

    Thanks again for the great key service.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. h00ktern

    h00ktern Member

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    My pleasure rrg

    I think Sfork found the solution to your issue also; the mini flat key that I found does not have a nice big head like you needed - or made ;)

    When I get some time, I'll pick up a few of the P18s - you are welcome to a freebie if you want. Just PM me and send me one to copy from. You know the system - you helped me define it, lol

    Cheers :tea:
     
  16. rchaput

    rchaput Junior Member

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    I just receive two mechanical 'laser keys' made for me by 'h00ktern', a member of Prius chat. The keys work perfectly. They are identical in appearance to the original. The cost was very, very modest and the turn around time less then a week.

    I have heard on PriusChat that some dealers have quoted/charged $ 100 to duplicate the mechanical/laser key. No need to get ripped off by a dealer when we have a resource like 'h00ktern' (the middle two 'ohs' are numbric'

    Read more: http://priuschat.com/threads/2012-prius-plugin-laser-key.109577/#ixzz1wxaWeu4M
     
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  17. rrg

    rrg Active Member

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    hOOktern,
    PM sent. New website is not the most intuitive IMO.
    It has me guessing if the PM went or not.
     
  18. h00ktern

    h00ktern Member

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    First, thank you rchaput, glad it worked-out and saved you big bucks :)

    Roy, yeah, I think we're all getting used to the new software. I replied in the IM.
     
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  19. Nadler

    Nadler Junior Member

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    I wanted to report that h00ktern made 2 laser cut keys for me for my 2012 Prius. They both fit perfectly and the turn around time was amazingly fast. He mailed the new keys back to me on the same day he received the master key from me.

    His instructions for sending the master key to him were precise and ensured his receipt and the key's protection. I recommend his service highly. So highly in fact that I am going to have him program a replacement key fob with his Techstream & Mongoose cable.

    (If anyone is interested in getting a key fob programmed on Long Island pm me so we can do a group buy).
     
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  20. TsKarma

    TsKarma Junior Member

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    Update: I just got my two extra (brand new) smart key fob programmed at Longo Toyota for a flat fee of $56. This does NOT include cutting the key. My local-ish locksmith in Westminister, OC can cut the keys for $20 each. If you know of a reputable locksmith, then please PM me or make a post. In the meantime, I will call Home Depot/Lowes to see if they can do it for less. Thanks in advance.