1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Gen III Body Dampers

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by gsnnc, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. gsnnc

    gsnnc Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    13
    3
    0
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    It appears that a version of the Yamaha made "lateral performance dampers" connecting the strut towers on the Lexus CT200h are sold in Japan as "Cox (brand) Body Dampers" and are available specifically for Gen III Prius. One Japanese web-site with information is here: COX BODY DAMPER setting by D'TEC ①|クラウンハイブリッド/トヨタ|整備手帳|Super City|みんカラ - 車・自動車SNS(ブログ・パーツ・整備・燃費)

    Although the damping part of these products appears to be the same as the Lexus part, the design of each end of the damper is different. The info at the above link definitely is for a Prius, as are the undercarriage photos. The dampers sold for the Prius connect to the lower part of the frame (instead of the strut towers like on my wife's CT200h). Still, they claim very similar benefits as far as NVH reduction. They WAY overpriced at about $1,200 each, especially when CT200h versions retail for around $300 each.

    Another site claims these things work very well:

    1: NISMO | Performance Damper Set

    My quest is to make my Gen III as smooth and quiet as possible. It will never match my wife's CT200h, but the Prius will always be larger and get better mileage (my preference). I replaced the Prius' OEM Goodyear Fuel Max tires at 15k miles with Goodyear Comfortred and the difference was excellent - far quieter and smoother ride. I've also installed a type of durable rubber weather stripping on the metal lip of the leading edge of the rear doors. This seals the vertical gap there (same as on CT200h), reduces wind noise and absolutely looks factory-like.

    So, other than adding insulation to doors, etc., I'm convinced that "body dampers" (if they could be found at a reasonable price) might provide a significant next step in lowering NVH.

    Fellow Chatters, feel free to chime in with your opinions on this. Hopefully, someone will discover more info on body dampers and perhaps whether the less expensive CT200h versions could be fitted to a Gen III Prius (rear chassis plus ether strut tower or front chassis). And if one of you can read Japanese (!), a translation of the first web site listed above (that's better than what Google offers) would be very helpful indeed. Thanks!
     
  2. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    7,914
    3,141
    0
    Location:
    Honolulu, HI
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Open the website in Google Chrome and use the Google Translate button to display in English. Worked pretty well.
     
  3. phoenixgreg

    phoenixgreg Senior member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    1,157
    290
    66
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I've put 4 cans of Duplicolor professional grade rubberized undercoating (one can per wheel well) on mine and it made a difference. How much, I can't quantify and the cans were $7.50 each. Also, it's a messy job and you have to remove each wheel and clean the wheel well first before applying it.
     
  4. gsnnc

    gsnnc Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    13
    3
    0
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Interesting idea! Hadn't thought of that. A good rubberized undercoating should reduce vibration and insulate as well.

    What I'm currently doing it comparing everything I can about my wife's CT200h and my Gen3 Prius. I've done this visually, but also looked at the parts & assembly diagrams at Lexus and Toyota parts sites:

    Lexus: 2011 CT200h
    Toyota: OEM Toyota Parts - Toyota OEM Parts - Factory Toyota Parts

    There doesn't appear to be any difference in things such as firewall (either side) or hood insulation, or underbody coatings. It's hard to tell for sure, but the parts diagrams for both cars show roof insulation (Lexus might be heavier). One huge difference is the weight of the doors. That said, the Lexus parts diagram for the doors does not show any insulation affixed to the inside of the exterior door skin, so I suspect its all part of the actual door trim panel.

    Also, the removable tray under the floor behind the rear seats on the CT200h is made of thick reinforced Styrofoam. That must help a lot. However, there is NO insulation in the spare wheel well area of the CT200h. I know some folks on this forum have place yoga mats, etc. over the spare wheel area of the Prius and noticed a difference. I've done that too (covered the entire well) and it did reduce noise from that area.

    Based on what I've seen so far, I'd bet that door insulation and body dampers (if I can figure out a way to add them) would be ideal. I'm not convinced that covering everything with Duramat is the best answer.
     
  5. gsnnc

    gsnnc Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    13
    3
    0
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    It does work surprisingly well! Now if I could only get those Jpeg images translated.

    Also, here's a link to the CT200h forum and a guy in Russia who ADDED stock performance dampers to his CT200h. Here are his installation pic:
    Ordered original stabilizer bars - Page 3

    Comments on the dampers from
    CT 200h Chief Engineer Sam Sadakata:
    Lexus CT 200's lateral dampers | Lexus CT200H

    Lexus claims: "
    The dampers’ design is like that of a monotube shock absorber, as shown in the diagram below. Used in place of conventional rigid bracing, they are deployed between the front suspension towers, and at the rear across the lower back panel. Each damper assembly is tailored to suit the rigidity, noise and vibration performance in its immediate surroundings.
    As well as absorbing and minimising unwanted vibrations, particularly through the vehicle floor, they improve steering feel and ride comfort. Body deformation is also significantly reduced: in testing, Lexus engineers recorded a 15 per cent reduction in the displacement of the left and right suspension towers."
    (2011 Lexus CT 200h Technical Details)

    I don't want a CT200h. They are cramped, too low, hard to see out the back and too expensive. But the body damper? That I'd like!
     
  6. phoenixgreg

    phoenixgreg Senior member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    1,157
    290
    66
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    wheel well muffling 001.JPG I have also sound-dampened all 4 doors of my Prius. It's a combination of quilt fabric I got at Walmart and foam-rubber matress cover (also at Walmart). It's tricky to get it right, but it made a huge difference especially at high speeds on the highway. As per your reference, I completely lined the spare tire area with foam rubber also reducing road noise transfer from there.

    One other thing I did before undercoating the front wheel wells was to remove the plastic section of the wheel well (not a fun job) and then jam more foam rubber high into the upper fender and where it could transfer noise into the passenger cabin. I took some pictures and will try to post them here for you. Again, it was a nasty job and I still have some skinned knuckles!

    NOTE: I had a lot more pics to upload showing the innards of wheel well but PC really limits how many pics you can upload per thread.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. gsnnc

    gsnnc Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    13
    3
    0
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Phoenixgreg, you have lot's of initiative! Thanks for the pics!

    I'm curious about your door insulation strategy. Did you basically place the insulation between the inner part of the door trim panel and the inner cabin-facing part of the door's metal surface (where those two surfaces normally touch), or between the two metal sides of the door? Thanks.
     
  8. phoenixgreg

    phoenixgreg Senior member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    1,157
    290
    66
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I'll try to get some pics of the door strategy. All of the insulation is between the removable door panel and the inner metal frame of the door itself. The quilt lining has about 3 layers and the foam rubber is only placed on the clear plastic that covers the access to the power window motor and mechanism. This foam was no bigger than the opening otherwise there was too much back-pressure from it to re-attach the door panel. Even following those guidelines, it's tricky work as there is some pressure and resistance from the foam rubber.

    As you extract any of the door panels, there are small plastic body attachment holders that need to be reused so be careful not to distort them or lose them.
     
  9. gsnnc

    gsnnc Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    13
    3
    0
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Thanks! BTW, here are some pics of the adhesive rubber strips I installed to seal the door gaps. Slide1.JPG Slide2.JPG Slide3.JPG Slide4.JPG Slide5.JPG Slide6.JPG Slide7.JPG
     
    GCPExit12 and peterjmc like this.
  10. phoenixgreg

    phoenixgreg Senior member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    1,157
    290
    66
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Now I get what you did. I have the dark blue so if I did it, the windseal would hardly show. Was one pack of the 17 foot Frost King seal enough for the whole car? I made a note of the product and specs so I might do this too. Hopefully, it's available at Home Depot.

    Did you notice an appreciable difference in wind noise at highway speeds? My Cadillac used to have similar seals (OEM).

    EDIT: How did you do the front door vertical seam to the front fender? I don't see any lip to take the seal there.
     
  11. gsnnc

    gsnnc Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    13
    3
    0
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    The product comes in a roll and I got mine at Home Depot (about $6). The roll contains two strips lightly melded together and you separate them by just pulling them apart (a bit like a zipper). There is plenty to do the whole car, plus you can seal the sides of the hood above the headlights if you wish. It's really kind of hard to say for sure how much difference this make at highway speeds. It MUST reduce noise and it SEEMS to do so but it is very subjective.

    I considered doing the vertical seam at the front fender, but could not see a way to do that as there is really nothing to affix the seal to and the door shape "pinches" the gap when opening. FYI, the CT200h does not have a strip there either.

    One other thing. If you install this on the leading edge of the rear doors, it works best if you place the flat, sticky edge of the strip so it is essentially perpendicular to the side of the car. The strip is shaped like a "D" and the flat part of the D is sticky. Affix the strip so that the outermost part of the D's curve faces forward (toward the front of the car). Let me know if this is confusing.

    Finally, when I open the front doors and look into (behind) the front fenders, there is some kind of insulation there... looks like it might be some type of foam encased in more rigid plastic. You can touch it with your finger(s) and it appears to be virtually identical to what I see when I look at the same area of the CT200h.
     
  12. phoenixgreg

    phoenixgreg Senior member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    1,157
    290
    66
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Thanks for the details on your outermost wind seals. I also looked at the forward edge of the front door and could not figure out a good way to apply the seal. What would be needed is a rigid band about 3/4 inch wide that could somehow be attached to the backside of the front door's forward edge. That band would protrude beyond the edge on inside about 3/8 inch. Then the D shaped seal could be applied to that part of the band so the curved edge is facing outward. Now when the door closes, the curved side of the D seal would press against the backside of the front fender's edge. My Cadillac had something like that but it was specifically designed for that purpose. If you open your Pri's back door and look at the forward edge of the black plastic frame for the window, you will see how Toyota did it. I would think front door forward seam needs to be wind-sealed to completely reduce wind noise. I'll keep looking for solutions.
     
  13. gsnnc

    gsnnc Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    13
    3
    0
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Just a thought on the fender gap seal conundrum: Perhaps if one could find some of that thin, magnetic strip material about 1/2" wide that has adhesive backing on one side, the strip could be affixed to the back edge of the door leaving 1/4" protruding to use as a "shelf" for the insulating strip. Graphically, it would be something like this image. Fender strip image.jpg Still, this is a very tricky gap and whatever the insulating strip adheres to would have to be pretty solidly affixed to the door!
     
  14. GCPExit12

    GCPExit12 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    105
    33
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
  15. gsnnc

    gsnnc Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    13
    3
    0
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Genius? Hardly! Geeky? More likely.

    A few more tips on installing these strips: (1) make sure the area you apply them to is clean (I used rubbing alcohol after cleaning the surface), (2) try not to stretch the seal material when applying it (I assume there will be some temperature related expansion/contraction, but that the strip may be more likely to stay in place if there isn't excess "pull" on the adhesive) and (3) when the two strips are separated (zipper like), one edge of each strip will be just slightly imperfect. So I positioned that edge toward the car, leaving the smoother manufactured edge facing away from the car for the best appearance.
     
  16. phoenixgreg

    phoenixgreg Senior member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    1,157
    290
    66
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    All good tips, gsnnc. If you can locate such a mag-strip, let me know where you found it. Again, whatever band is used for the backing which provides the mounting lip; it must be solidly attached to the inner edge of the front door. From opening and closing, it will take a lot of force and it needs to stand up to the back-pressure from the D seal itself. So if anyone here knows of an adhesive that would do the job, please chime in. I don't think Liquid Nails is strong enough as it never fully hardens. We'd need something that would not give under heat, cold, moisture or stress.
     
  17. rrg

    rrg Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    458
    120
    41
    Location:
    East coast - NJ
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    This is a good topic on weather stripping for the car but it's the wrong title now.


    The lateral performance dampers sounds like a very good idea, if we could get them at a better price.