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Died after replacing front brake pads. Can't start afterwards.

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by alpinewhite, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. alpinewhite

    alpinewhite Junior Member

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    Help please.

    I replaced the front brake pads the same method as a traditional car. (Popped out caliper. Pushed piston in. Put new pads in). I did not pump the brakes after installation (forgot to do so).

    I drove off to test drive. A block later as I approached a stop sign, I smelled something similar to burning brakes (this might have been some of the oil I spilled when I added oil just before I left). Went to the next stop sign 100 yards away and was able to stop. Made a slow left turn and MFD displayed a warning and ABS (and maybe other ones too) light came on. I pulled over. I don't remember if the car shut itself or if I turned it off.

    Now, I can not get the car started. Had car towed home with wheel lift tow truck.

    Tried the following:

    - Press brake, push Start: Car appears to power up then shuts down immediately. Lights appear on dash, then go out. The squares around P,N,D,R,B are the last ones to go out.

    - Press start to go into ACC mode: Radio and clock power up without problems. Pressing start again results in same symptom above.

    - Tried to read code with ODBII scanner: all I get is "ERROR". Appears that it's not linking.

    - Jumped pin 4 and 13 of OBDII connector: I was able to go into Diagnostics Mode. I saw battery voltage to be 11.6V (too low). Got new GS battery from dealer. Now, voltage reads 12.6v-13.1v. Same no-start symptom.

    - Tried putting 2-amp charger on jumpstart post in fuse box: Left charger to charge for 4 hours. Tried all the things above. Same symptoms. Removed charger in fear of overcharging.

    HELP!!!! I'm running out of ideas. I'm afraid that if I take it to the stealership that they'll just replace parts all over until they get it started. Nothing obvious is indicated in Diagnostics Mode. OBDII reader can't read code.
     
  2. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Welcome to PC. Wish you had joined earlier and read up on this car more concerning the brakes. There difficult to work on as they use relay control for brake fluid control and to be repaired correctly requires Toyota Techstream softeware to control those relays. If not you must disconnect the 12 volt battery before working on the car's brakes so the brake vacuum actuator does not run. If it does it will drive the piston out of the caliper or in your case force it up against the caliper possibly. Just opening the door will sometimes turn the brake vac on. It will then set a code and then disable abs and you will have very little braking. Since you drove it then it may set multiple codes. Alot of the codes are Toyota specific and a general OBD may not read it. At this point I would tow it to the dealer so they can pull the codes and see whats up. Never heard of car dead after this event. Not good.
    (do not remove 12 volt battery and erase codes!) Please post those code numbers exactly here so we can further assist you.

    Btw, there are alot of accounts of succesful home pad replacement but all first unhooked 12 volt battery.
    But if your pads are shot that usually means you have 125+K miles and your way overdue for new calipers. Even if not leaking the biggest problem as you may know given there age and miles is lack of lubrication on caliper slides. Dry slides and the pads get hung on rotor no retraction and its smoke and tow time. That may be what happened anyway in addition. Its a rare brake shop that will just replace pads because of this down the road issue.

    Btw, even if I buy brand new calipers I break them down and blow out all casting/bolt holes with brake cleaner and use really high quality Permatex slider lube. You would not believe how much manufacturing slag is left in the bolt & casting holes on a new caliper.
     
  3. maestro8

    maestro8 Nouveau Member

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    Whoa there Mr. Jump-to-conclusions!

    How did you make this diagnosis with such little information from the OP? Did he PM you a picture or something?
     
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Prius brakes are not for the casual shade-tree mechanic. The proper way is to use the Toyota Techstream, but with care you can do without. Since you didn't use care, it's likely that you are SOL and will need to visit the dealer. Sometimes trying to save money doesn't save money.

    Tom
     
  5. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I suggest that the OP do a search for how to clear skid control ECU DTC by using a jump wire on OBD-II pins 4 and 13. If that doesn't help then I agree that it is time to tow the car to your local Toyota dealer.
     
  6. northwichita

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    Check all the fuses in the front fuse box, from my-- limited-- experience the car should still go into Ready (and drive) even though the brake system needs to be reset.

    Edit---The following post by epoch-time's is a good suggestion, I'll add a link to short video with more info on prius no start conditions, even though no mention of fuse checks...
    !
     
  7. epoch_time

    epoch_time Active Member

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    You mentioned putting oil in just after you changed front brake pads....
    Check that you didn't overfill oil...Prius's are easily over filled with oil causing lots of problems including non-startable ice..
    A good oil level on dipstick is 1/8th to 1/4 inch below full mark... Depends on how level your garage is... but difinately not above
    full mark....
     
  8. alpinewhite

    alpinewhite Junior Member

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    UPDATE:
    I called the stealership this morning to ask that they attend to the inverter pump and gas pedal recalls too.
    Later this afternoon, I get a call from the stealership.

    Stealer: We replaced your inverter pump. We also found that your ECU fuse was blown. The first two fuses we installed blew. The 3rd one is in and hasn't blown yet. We've driven it 20 miles already.
    AlpineWhite: What caused it to blow?
    S: We don't know. Is there anything about your car we should know?
    AW: Just that I replaced the front pads and the 12v battery. Diagnostics said the battery was only 11.6v so I replaced it.
    S: Neither one of those should affect the ECU.
    AW: The car is bone stock. Do you think the inverter pump has something to do with it?
    S: No, it shouldn't. The only thing I can think of is an intermittent short somewhere.
    AW: Did the OBD reader show any codes?
    S: No codes. I don't want to give you the car back just yet. We want to observe it for another day.
     
  9. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Fuses shouldn't blow. There is an overload somewhere, obviously.

    Tom
     
  10. northwichita

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    Do you think the inverter pump has something to do with it?
    Actually there is a good possibility of this since the AM2 fuse feeds the ECU, and blows when the inverter pump fries.
    Do check this is the fuse that was changed by the dealership.
     
  11. alpinewhite

    alpinewhite Junior Member

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    Got the car back from the stealership. It was AM2 as explained by previous poster. Stealearship claimed that they replaced the inverter pump first, then, popped two fuses afterwards. I'm guessing that the bad inverter pump caused the first two fuses to blow. Then, after replacing the inverter pump, fuse #3 no longer blew.

    Anyway, car is good now. Thanks for all your help. Even better is I paid nothing to the stealership. Not even for the fuses.
     
  12. veggieranger

    veggieranger Junior Member

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    Thanks for this post. It is great information! To the OP, I'm glad it worked out ok for you.

    I haven't needed to work on my Prius brakes but it sounds like it's possible to DIY brake pads if you disconnect the 12v battery. One question though... one of the early responders said calipers are way overdue to be replaced at 125k. That doesn't sound right to me. I don't replace calipers on cars unless I see wear issues when changing the pads. I have 324k miles on my Jetta TDI's front calipers and they are in perfect operating condition with no leaks, etc. I replaced the rear calipers at 310k due to piston seal failure on one side. (I always replace in pairs) Just wondering if the Prius is a special case for caliper replacement.

    Thanks,

    -VR
     
  13. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    With the Prius it's more of an issue of rust. Prius brakes don't get used like those on an ordinary car. Generally they rust away before they wear out, especially in northern areas with salted roads.

    Tom
     
  14. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Since the calipers have an aluminum body I would not expect them to be subject to excessive corrosion. If you don't see brake fluid leakage then there's no need for concern.

    The steel rotors are subject to corrosion and may require changing for that reason.
     
  15. veggieranger

    veggieranger Junior Member

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    ok. It sounds like this may be a case of region-itis. I'm in the Southeast and my cars have never seen salt on the roads. The only thing that turns orange on my cars are the wheel wells from the Georgia red clay... :)

    -VR
     
  16. alpinewhite

    alpinewhite Junior Member

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    OP, here. Another update.

    Last week, I drove the car for several days. I drove home without problems and parked the car. The next day, car wouldn't go into "Ready". Symptoms were a tad different. This time, none of the green dash lights would come on at all (previously, the squares around PNDRB would flash momentarily). I suspected the AM2 fuse had blown but I had to leave for vacation.

    Yesterday, I returned from vacation and tackled the problem. I pulled the AM2 fuse and saw that it was NOT blown. So, I put it back in and tried again. Lo and behold, the car started.

    I just now spoke to a service adviser at the stealership. Basically, they don't know why it happened. She suspected a loose connection on the fuse which got fixed when I put it back in. She also told me that if AM2 blows while driving, the car would not shut down but will display a warning on the MFD. I will, however, not be able to get it started after I shut it down. She said that AM2 controls the "mobilizer ECU". This is what she says puts the car into "Ready" mode after reading the code from the remote/key.