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Prius II Lease...

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by pingnak, Jun 27, 2012.

?
  1. Buy it.

    4 vote(s)
    44.4%
  2. Give it back.

    3 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. Trade it for a...

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  4. In Soviet Russia, Lease Return You.

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  1. pingnak

    pingnak New Member

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    So, that cheap lease I got from Toyota back in 2010, when Toyota was having all that stupid press, is coming due in six or so months, and I've started trying to make up my mind about what to do about that.

    The car only has 15,000 miles on it. Initially I drove it a lot, but then I moved where I could walk everywhere. So now I have this beautiful little dust-covered car that I rarely operate, and when I do, it's either short-ish trips (not the best mileage), or long trips (so long that I don't bother with fuel economy, for the sake of getting the trip done).

    It seems, according to Toyota Financial Services, to buy it out from Toyota would be about $17000, probably a little less by January, when it comes due and I would be forced to make a decision. About the same as KBB says. But I can't find one for sale anywhere under $20,000, even with several times the mileage, and mine's clean and well taken care of.
    I like my Prius, but I don't really drive it enough to make the fuel economy 'work', economically. I suppose it's a function of whether I like it enough to slap a wad of money down and carry on payments with a conventional loan, for a car that's nearly out of its bumper-to-bumper warranty. Of course, extended warranties (aka 'insurance policies') are available to carry on such coverage.

    Further confusing matters is my 'self employed' tax status, which allows me to write off a lease, but not a car payment. do not know why. Just the way things work. So leasing again is probably in the stars, if I don't buy something outright.

    Seriously, I could live with a new Nissan Versa 1.6s (cheapest car available in U.S.A.) But then I like hatchbacks way better (more versatile - I've put 'amazingly' large or quantities of things into the back of my Prius), but that pushes the price right back into consideration for various cars.
    2012 Nissan Versa - Models, Pricing & Information | Nissan USA

    So keep it, trade it for some hyper-mile friendly conventional car that won't be used much, lease another Prius, lease something else, or... aliens???
     
  2. kyle5434

    kyle5434 Junior Member

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    If you can, why not pile up some cash over the next six months, and in January turn in the Prius and buy a beater.

    Drive it for a year or so while you pile up the money that had been going to your lease payment in a savings account, then use that money and trade up a level or two for another (used) car.

    Repeat as desired.
     
  3. pingnak

    pingnak New Member

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    Well, I have the cash to buy a beater, or a decent used car, or even a new Prius, if I wanted to deplete savings, and have thought about returning to the beater path. Worst case, I have an even dustier, even less used, ancient Ford diesel pickup that I could drive. Though I would have to get off my butt and put some money and effort into making it start reliably.

    The catch is, when I need it, it needs to be reliable. The truck definitely is more of an 'adventure' to operate, and not especially friendly in town.

    I'm not broke, or anything. I could go on leasing more Priuses indefinitely, but it seems a waste to spend the money on a car I rarely use. I literally put gas in it about every three months.

    If there were a taxi subscription that came with rental discounts, I would probably use that, and not own a car at all.
     
  4. Fore

    Fore Don't look back!

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    If this was my situation I would trade it in for a new Prius C which could be bought for under 20k, better short range mileage which saves you even more money and it's still a hatchback which you like, just a little smaller. I've never been a fan of leasing anything!
     
  5. pingnak

    pingnak New Member

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    Yup. If it only drives as well as my Prius II, a Prius c II might be just the thing. I see a lot of mixed reviews for it, though.

    I could certainly stay on my 'lease habit', especially since the difference in starting a loan to buy the existing Prius, and just leasing another one is negligible.
     
  6. yeldogt

    yeldogt Active Member

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    I am able to expense my purchased vehicles -- you need to look into why you are being told you must lease. With all the low and 0 percent deals around I would never pay cash for an end of lease vehicle. We have many cars in the company and household and Lexus vehicles work out to be very affordable in situations where they are used lightly and kept for a few years -- especially if you can get a low mile certified car with a reduced finance rate. We have two 2005's that we purchased when they were 1 year old with 15k on them -- have around 75k now -- have needed nothing other than tires and brake pads and are are still worth an amazing amount in the used marketplace. Purchased correctly they end up being one the cheapest cars to own
     
  7. pingnak

    pingnak New Member

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    I think it's because I'm not incorporated, only being a 'freelance' game developer thug. For whatever reason the H&R block people write off the lease, but not a purchase. Tax law is a mystery that I leave to the experts.

    There are a few sound arguments for why I 'ought to' incorporate, but frankly, I'm a bug.
     
  8. The Broz

    The Broz Junior Member

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    I like this idea as well. Without knowing the small details of your situation, I would lean towards just getting something old and paying cash. Or if you really are only buying gas 4 times a year, I would think about if I really needed a car at all and what I would need it for. For example, if I lived in Manhattan (NYC, not Kansas :) ) I don't think I would have a car at all and just rent one for occasional out of town trips. Maybe you can get by with just having a motorcycle or one of those two seater Scions?
    One thing I have been thinking of when I go to buy is trying to sell privately so I can get more money, and then just renting a car for a couple days while I shop for a new one. I live in an area where having a car is a must, even though I don't put all that many miles on it.
    Also - it depends on what your priorities are. In my case, I don't know that getting a Prius makes perfect sense for me from a purely financial standpoint but I do consider it to be "the right thing to do" in a sense under the notion that "if all Americans drove Prii, there would be no need for foreign oil - if there is no need for foreign oil, then maybe we could end the wars" and so on. My point is not to be political on you, but just that although financial considerations certainly play a role for me, they are not the only thing. I also like the idea of being protected should something happen to gas prices, which I think easily could be a reality without much happening. Several years ago here in PHX AZ, we had a major gas shortage for a few days because the primary pipeline that brings gas to the state broke (we do not have any oil refineries here), and instantly there were lines of 30-40 cars at the gas stations, cars following trucks so they could find a gas station that actually HAD gas and so on. It was like the OPEC embargo all over again. Well - that experience stuck with me. Not that a Prius would insulate me completely from that like a plug in would, but it would make me safer and for other reasons, a plug in is simply not an option for me anyway.
    Just my two (or three) cents without knowing your specifics.
     
  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Used Hatchback.
    I would look for a Honda Civic, maybe a Ford Focus.
    Read CR for reliability data, and invest in a good mechanic exam before you buy.

    The tax advantages of a lease do not come close to simply buying an inexpensive car you can keep for a long time.
     
  10. John H

    John H Senior Member

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  11. pingnak

    pingnak New Member

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    I do not know. When I looked at the zipcar link, it looks worse than renting an economy car. Though I'd have to pay the gas and insurance myself (and my insurance includes rentals), the economy box cars run about $20 a day from a conventional car rental place, and I don't have to take care of them.
    Enterprise Rent-A-Car - Rental Cars at Low Rates

    Then again, since I could walk to a rental place from my house (as I mentioned, I can walk pretty much *everywhere* from my house - college, stores, restaurants, mall, etc... and various bus stops), it's an interesting idea to just rent a car when I need to go further, on an as-needed basis. Some of them will even bring you the car.

    Then I could have some kind of wreck, scooter, or even BEV for routine in-town use.

    I could even pay the small additional fee, and totally thrash the rentals. Or take a bus/train/plane to wherever I'm going, and rent a car there.

    I guess I just hate driving, really. I consider it easier to walk a few miles than get into a car, maneuver it carefully around every kind of fender bending obstacle, avoid squishing people and animals, observe every kind of law, etc., in order to drive somewhere. Plus, I can pretend that it's 'exercise', if I want to.

    There's also my successful 'pedestrian diet'. Don't stock any food in the kitchen beyond some fruit/veggies and lo-calorie drink mixes. If I'm going to eat, I walk there. I ONLY walk there. Eat whatever I like (within reason/affordability) when I get there. At home, the cupboards are bare, so there's no snacking without getting up off my buttocks and going for a walk. Weight loss has been fairly consistent.
     
  12. jabecker

    jabecker driver of Prii since 2005

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    I'm not sure what state you're in, or what the business license rules are there, but there are ways to have a business without being incorporated. For example, I'm a sole proprietor. If you rent a car when you need one, and your need is business related, it's possible that your rental may be a business expense. Check with a tax accountant on that. If you don't need a car, why have one?
     
  13. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    I'd also add a used Corolla in there.

    Perhaps the OP can briefly get an online subscription to CR to look at Best Used Cars | Used Cars - Consumer Reports.

    Totally OT, given the OP's handle, he might get a kick off out the most helpful review of Amazon.com: The Story About Ping (9780140502411): Marjorie Flack, Kurt Wiese (Illustrator): Books. ;)
     
  14. John H

    John H Senior Member

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    The zipcars come with gasoline, insurance, parking, and 180 miles so you can totally drop your auto insurance and you can pay by the hour for errands.

    compare us to car ownership – Zipcar

    You can always go to the rental company for a full day, weekend, or longer and just get their full insurance package.

    If your Prius is really just collecting dust then this would be the way to go.
     
  15. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    If a hatchback version exists, absolutely. Toyota Matrix is a good choice too. I'm only mentioning hatchbacks based on the OP priorities.
     
  16. The Broz

    The Broz Junior Member

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    After hearing this, if you think you could get by on renting a car every now and then - that has got to be the way to go in my mind. I would think you'll save a lot of money. You will obviously start to plan trips/errands that require a car. I don't know that this is a bad thing though. It sounds like it might be right up your ally. Keep us posted on what you decide to do.
    Where do you live BTW? I would love to live somewhere that I could walk all over. Phoenix is about as anti-walking as I can imagine.
     
  17. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    I'm not a tax expert, but the principle is simple.

    When you buy a car you convert money into a depreciating asset. You aren't allowed to claim the car payments, only the depreciation of the asset.

    When you lease a car you don't own the car and instead get to claim the lease payment as a business expense.
     
  18. pingnak

    pingnak New Member

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    I'm in Palm Desert, CA. It's been a bit hot now, but most of the year is mild, and many areas have nice sidewalks and crosswalks and bike paths. We only get a touch of the monsoonal moisture, well, later in July and through some of August, but for now the window swamp cooler keeps the place 80-ish when it's 110. Though many people cringe at 'It's a dry heat', it's true. If you don't get yourself used to living in a refrigerator, you can wear a hat and walk in the heat. Though I prefer after sunset.

    Mostly, if you're going to shop for a place to live, try 'walkscore'. ESPECIALLY if you're buying. Do a little homework online. There are probably some places in/around Phoenix that are walkable, though you'll pay a touch more and have to shop a little more carefully.
    Get Your Walk Score - Find Walkable Apartments and Rentals

    I think most cities, you really could survive without a car, but education about how to access public transit is sorely lacking. Every kid in middle or high school should get a quarter-long course for how to ride the taxi, bus, train, etc. Maybe even earlier get a bicycle safety course that teaches them how NOT to get squished like a bug. Most people simply don't know how to access alternate modes of transportation. You look at a bus stop, and it's just intimidating route numbers or colors, typically with little information about where the buses actually go. (Hint: Google it.) I guess teaching kids how to run away from home probably wouldn't go over well, but it's got to beat hitchhiking because they don't know how to use a bus, if they get lost. Many cities also have programs that will collect lost kids and get them home (or help) if they just wait at a bus stop. Some kind of class about all of that would be helpful.

    I recall vividly a girl who felt she should loudly announce how she would NEVER take a bus, one day when I was waiting for a bus, and I smiled at her. Palm Springs has a 'Street Fair' every thursday. I could have driven, but then I'd have to PARK somewhere. It's crawling with pedestrians, and there aren't many places TO park, so there are lots of other vehicles crawling around, looking for the same spaces. I took the bus because I was lazy and didn't plan to be out late, and time was no particular object. I'd rather take a nap on the way there or back, and be able to have an alcoholic beverage, if I so choose. And thinking about a beer or meal, I'd rather buy one at a nicer place than hand it over to a taxi driver.
     
    SageBrush likes this.
  19. pingnak

    pingnak New Member

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    Yep, sounds sorta like the explanation. But she may as well have been making goo-goo noises.
     
  20. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    My daughter was keen to learn to drive at home, but now that she is in Portland OR she could not care less. Wonderful public transport, walking and bicycle routes. The way a city should be.