NPR All Things Considered did a piece on Prius and EPA

What I loved was when Csaba insinuated that Toyota 'gamed' the EPA estimates by tuning the car specifically for the tests.

If they did that, they'd have to tune it for all the other international tests, and then we'd really have some differences in versions out there.

Just seems highly unlikely to me. Doesn't come close to passing Occams Razor

 

Direct link to this interview

 

This just goes along the theory that the majority of humans are stupid. Here's a few problems:

#1)Complaints to the manufacturer, when ALL auto companies are saying that the EPA tests should be changed to better reflect 'real world' driving.

#2)Upcoming hybrids, if they do not display your mpg, will mean you're getting just as bad mpg without knowing it, such as you are driving your regular car. You say your SUV can get 20 mpg, but I'm sure it's not getting anywhere near that.

#3)The Ford Escape SUV, the first US made hybrid is getting high praise in the media right now. When it comes out, it'll get the same s*** about how the mpg isn't coming close to the EPA standards for the majority of drivers.

Part of me worries about this, because it could mean a trend away from hybrids. However, *we who are getting above and beyond EPA estimates* need to get the attention of the media to show that with instantaneous feedback on how your driving affects your mileage, you can *change* your driving habits into safer and better ways.

I think this is something that'll be a long uphill battle, but I also think it's winnable.

-m.

 

From that link you can also send an email to All Things Considered. Those of you who actually have Prii and real world experience driving them ought to flood them with letters reporting your own experiences. It might also be worth noting the emissions reduction benefits, since so many places still have unhealthy air. NPR is usually good about reading letters on the air that address their news stories.

As for me, still waiting for my car, these stories are a bit troubling, but I still know I will beat the non-hybrids out there, and I also know that even if mileage were equal, the Prius is now as good for me as any other similarly priced car.

 

Y'know, the widespread distribution of these MPG-bashing articles, and the "emergency workers afraid to cut into hybrids" articles, are beginning to give me a persecution complex.

Or, at the very least, make me wonder whether the GM public relations office is doing their best to send these articles to every media outlet they can find.

 

I just drove 500 miles on the interstates in my new Prius off the lot and got 50.5 mpg on the first tank. Sticker says 51 mpg for highway. I don't see the issue.

 

Well, ask the pioneer drivers and those who had the car during the winter when they were seeing averages in the low 40's. But, EPA numbers don't account for that, they're simply for 70deg F. Plus, it takes some time to learn to drive the car better - meaning you got 50.5 on your trip home, and in time you'll probably be hitting 60mpg with decent adjustments in your driving.

Now, we all know from this wonderful board that short trips kill the mpg, as does cold weather - but we also know that its impossible, literally, to have someone who drives a "regular" car to tell you what kind of mileage they got when they drove from their house to the store yesterday - whereas you can give them accurate numbers. I think the most important part of the argument that the general public is missing on this, is that with displays such as in the Prius (and the upcoming Ford Escape), we can have immediate feedback on becoming a better, more efficient driver.

-m.

 

When my 2004 was brand new, it only delivered MPG in the low 40's... BECAUSE IT WASN'T BROKEN IN YET AND IT WAS THE DEAD OF WINTER.

Why the heck can't some reporters figure that out?

Now, the Multi-Display is showing a very pleasing 55.1 MPG. But do they care? No! Most only like when there is a controversy to write about. Articles that state "all is fine" don't sell as well. Bummer.

 

Exactly my experience. High 40's in November, low to mid 40's through February/March, and now 55-56 average, including highway miles. Can hit 70 mpg on my 18-mile commute to work.

 

FWIW, my Audi's display showed current gas mileage (updated continuously), average over trip, or average since start of car. You're right, it's nice to have the ability to see how your driving patterns effect mpg. Audi's been including this feature for years, even in their lower lines (A4 B5 series).

Setting aside the NPR comments, in the end, I think the bigger problem is that even if most people did know their exact mpg, they wouldn't care. It's hard to believe gas consumption levels or costs are a concern for the massive truck and suv drivers in my area that routinely drive aggressively and solo in their vehicles.[/quote]

 

[/quote]

Very cool, I didn't know audi's had that feature in the past. Thanks for correcting me and letting me know. I do think though that if each and every driver could see how they drive affects how often they have to fill up their gas guzzler, especially with prices where we are at now, I'd like to think the majority of the people out there would work to change their bad driving habits.

-m.

 

My Honda Civic Hybrid has the instantaneous readout as well. Using the feedback definately helps the driver maximize fuel economy.

 

Really? I test drove a HCH a year ago, and I couldn't recall if it had an mpg display. What year is yours? I do know that the Insight also has a display, but wasn't sure about the HCH - glad to hear it does. Personally, I think it's another feature that should become 'required' by a certain date in all vehicles, but that's just my opinion.

-m.

 

Although I am skeptical, I'd like to think your are right, and many people would change their habits. I think we all agree it would be nice if this feature were standard on new vehicles so people would get the chance to learn and change.

Btw, thank you for your kind response. I am new to the board and had hoped my post would be taken as informational, not inflammatory. I've been on forums that would take contrary responses very poorly. I'm glad this wasn't the case. [/quote]

 

One of my best friends traded in his Jimmy for a Bravada. He also works in the computer field and like I, on many occasions hauls around a lot of computers.

His new SUV also has a real time read out on the amount of fuel being used. As he is on the gas, it drops down to 10 - 12 mpg, but as he coast, it sometimes reads as high as 40. Just someting I noticed.

He just bought is used last year, but is very interested in seeing my new prius when It arrives, hopefully within a week. If cargo room is adiquate, he may consider one in the future.

 

I own a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid with a manual gearbox. My duaghter has it at school in CA. Just last week it rolled over 43K miles. She is routinely getting 50+MPG.

 

[/quote]

No problem! This board is certainly one of the best regarding being informational and non-volatile, as least as far as I've seen. I'm usually not involved in too many forums because like you said, almost anything can be taken the wrong way and often is on boards. Of course though, the off topic (general discussion) thread does occasionally get heated here. And also welcome aboard!

-m.

 

First, I tend to agree that most people could care less about their mileage, hence the SUV's and trucks blowing by me at 90 mph each day. Sure, they complain about gas prices, but really have no clue about their mileage or their self imposed 10 mpg habits. Second, the real issue here is people jumping on a cause without really knowing the facts or framing the story to accurately reflect the data. For nearly 25 years, I have watched nearly every vehicle I have driven deliver EPA estimated highway mileage under long distance (50 miles or more) highway driving. The EPA number is generated at 55 mph, yet many of the vehicles, including recent ones, are driven 70+ mph and still deliver the EPA number or only 1 or 2 mph less. That said, I can quickly change my driving habits and erode that mileage number. How you drive and where you drive (hills, temps, etc.) has a huge affect on your ultimate mileage.

All this positioning I have done is fine, but here is the story that was not told and should have been. My previous car was EPA rated at 26 MPG on the highway, and respectably delivered 25 - 26 mph at 70 mph. I got a lousy 20 or less in combined, less in the city. The new Prius, with only 600 miles on the odo, is delivering 46.x mpg for the same trips that averaged 24 in the other car. My trip into town yesterday delivered over 75 mpg during its 10 minute event. So, EPA or not, with similar room and more features, as well as a price comparable to what I paid for the other car 5 years ago, I get more car AND I have nearly doubled my fuel economy. Driving 55 or 60 mph down the highway yields instantaneous fuel economy readings of 50+, thus I see my car easily achieving EPA numbers under conditions similar to their test conditions. But this latter point is never mentioned in the stories. Kind of makes you wonder if someone complained that the catsup coming out of the bottle wasn't red, would someone check the label to be sure it wasn't supposed to be one of the off-color versions? You could simply report it wasn't red, or you could report it wasn't red because it wasn't supposed to be. Too few journalists elect to tell you why something appears to be amiss, leaving listeners and readers to believe something is wrong when nothing is. No, I am not getting 51 mpg on the highway, but if I was driving 55 mph I would be.