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Not all HID Bulbs are created equal

Discussion in 'Knowledge Base Articles Discussion' started by 2k1Toaster, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Yep. One needs to be careful.

    So that people see what I'm talking about, see attached.

    Hmm, original attachment was corrupted and cut off and I can't upload a new one.
     
  2. Peter Watson

    Peter Watson New Member

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    Hi I hope this is not off topic. I'm looking for troubleshooting help with the HID/ECU. About a month ago I replaced a bulb in my wife's 2009 with one of a pair (assumed the other side would follow soon) I got off of Ebay. By all appearances they're genuine Philips Bulbs, one installed fine and worked properly...for about a month. So, being a suspicious type, I "hung" the other bulb (attached it to the socket and set on a clean dry surface) to see if the bulb would light, which it did not. So I checked for power at the socket, with the bulb out, a good Fluke DMM showed no useable level of either AC or DC voltage. My question - is that a valid test or does the ECU need to see current flow before it drops to the "on" levels you state as 17-85 VAC? Or did I likely destroy the ECU by running it without the bulb? Or is my methodology inapplicable to the circuit/components?
    Thanks for the highly informative article
     
  3. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    Unfortunately, this happened to me. Back in Dec, I bought a pair of "OEM" D4R bulbs through Amazon, but didn't really think anything about it being from a 3rd party. The bulbs turned out to be counterfeit Phillips bulbs. I later bought "real" Phillips bulbs directly from Amazon, but got stuck with the fake set which cost just about the same as the real ones.
     
  4. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    It is not a valid test. And you should NOT probe it with your DMM! There is high voltage in that socket and can actually arc the connector without a bulb installed.
     
  5. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    I always recommend buying bulbs from The Retrofit Source. They will be genuine and supports the retrofit forums as well. Their customer service is top notch.
     
  6. wargarbl

    wargarbl New Member

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    I hate to resurrect an old topic but I'm looking at The Retrofit Source site and can't find any D4R bulbs. Based on some reading I don't think the D2R bulbs can be used in place of D4Rs in my 06 Prius (or can they? I'd love to be wrong here).

    I've want to buy the D4R "Philips OEM" from Amazon, there seems to be 2 marketplace vendors, Triton Max and AutoX, but can't be sure if they're fake.

    Has anyone bought from either of them and confirm that these are real?
     
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  7. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Why bother w/those? Why not buy ones sold directly by Amazon and not 3rd parties?
     
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  8. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    I wouldn't bother with 3rd party vendors
     
  9. wargarbl

    wargarbl New Member

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    Yeah I'd buy from Amazon directly if I could but it seems only third party sells through Amazon. Can't find one that Amazon sells directly.

    This is what I'm looking at though $81 for both bulbs seem a little too good to be true.
     
  10. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    That's really weird. I confirm what you're seeing. Perhaps you should place a customer service request w/Amazon to ask what's going on and why they aren't selling them?

    As an alternative, perhaps try one of these? Philips Zip Code Locator. This page comes from Philips Car lights, Lighting, under Where to buy.
     
  11. babybird

    babybird Member

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    From the Amazon website today:

    That sucks, because my bulb is on its way out (or ballast? Is there any way to tell for sure which is going bad?) and I was just about to purchase the one linked from here from Amazon. Now I'm not sure whether I should because I don't know whether it will be genuine or a fake and I don't want to waste time or money on a fake bulb. And The Retrofit Source doesn't seem to carry the D4R bulb, so I'm at a loss as to where to buy a good bulb for a reasonable price. Sure I can always get one from the dealer for $160, but no way am I willing to pay that price just for a headlight bulb.

    Just for clarification though, my symptom is that the headlight turns on just fine, and generally runs just fine for as long as the car is on at night, until I have to shut the headlights off. The second time I turn it on, it'll come on again but sometimes will go out after 2-5 minutes, sometimes after 20 minutes, and sometimes not at all. Sometimes when I first turn it on the second time of the night, it comes on in a really dim pink/purple color, but warms up to white. Other times on the second time I turn it on, it turns on white just like the good one. This seems to happen independent of the outside temperature, but I haven't tracked the temperature to be absolutely sure of that.

    I also noticed about a year ago that the bad bulb would sometimes flicker ever so slightly dimmer, but not always. So What IS the way to tell whether you have a bad bulb or bad ballast without spending $200 on a ballast and $50-100 on a bulb? Are the symptoms different or are they just inconclusive without replacing the parts?
     
  12. babybird

    babybird Member

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    I guess I should also ask whether the ballast really NEEDS to be a Toyota ballast if I have to replace it or if I'd be OK to replace it with a different brand for the same D4R bulb? It seems like the ballast in the Prius may just be a little flaky since I've never heard of another car that uses D4R bulbs having premature failures before.

    Could I get away with using a Lexus or Nissan or some other brand of ballast instead?

    Or a reputable aftermarket one?
     
  13. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    You are correct (sorry) that only D4R and D4S bulbs will work in the 2006-2009 Prius. You can buy D#S bulbs add a notch and install them in a D#R projector/reflector. Your light pattern will be off and more light will be thrown up. But a bulb is better than no bulb if you are in a pinch.

    To everyone: There has never been a guarantee that what Amazon stocks and sell directly is not fake. It just so happened that some times they carry genuine stock. But they replenish their stock from their vendors so once out, it is a gamble again and of course you will never know because Amazon is great at what they do and rarely ever go out of stock giving notice to the end user that they are switching to a new stock.


    If you are buying D4R bulbs, then you need the 42406C1 bulb. The Home Depot supposedly sells them, but I have never ordered from there:

    Philips Standard HID 42406/D4R Headlight Bulb (1-Pack)-42406C1 at The Home Depot

    The good thing with Amazon is that you can order it from the 3rd party, post pictures of it here before you install it, and we will try to tell if it is genuine or not. If not, you can return it no questions asked and at no cost.





    From what you describe it could be either bulb or ballast. It sounds like only 1 headlight is doing this, the other one is fine? If so, swap the bulbs. If the problem follows the bulb, it is bulb. If the problem does not follow, it is more than likely the ballast.

    If it is ballast, then I recommend sticking with the Denso ballast. They are some of the best, if not the best, on the market. It is what Toyota uses throughout the Toyota/Scion/Lexus/Daihatsu brands. A good aftermarket are the Morimoto ones.

    I am also partial to the big analogue ballasts instead of the PWMing "slim" ballasts. The big older ones make a horrible whining sound when they are turned on from cold for a few seconds, but they are nearly impossible to kill. The newer slim ones are quieter and of course smaller, but they fail much more easily with abuse. If you are just hooking it up, keeping it waterproof, and forgetting about it, it shouldn't matter. For me I am constantly moving them around, and connecting to different bulbs, sometimes it doesn't seat right and you get a huge arc of fire. The slim ballasts don't like this all. The big oldschool ones take it in stride and carry on like nothing has happened.
     
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  14. Busmonkey

    Busmonkey Junior Member

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    Thanks, Toaster, for a great thread. I read the entire thing and studied your great photos before ordering bulbs for my '07. It's new to me and the right was definitely out. After changing them, I found that the good one (the left) was aftermarket, so obviously changed recently.

    I'm posting to pass on some current info on quality. I ordered my bulbs from Xenon Corp (through Amazon), and by all indications they are genuine Philips (ordered in January 2014). I won't quote the price, since it'll be stale info for anybody reading this, but it was reasonable. It's also worth noting that the aftermarket I pulled out of the left was labeled Harison, and was working fine. I'm not sure how long it's been in there, but it has worked at least for the 30 hrs or so that I've run it. For the price of OEM, though, I'm not sure why you'd go with anything else.
     
  15. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Because you want a bulb that lasts longer than the OEM that led to a class action lawsuit and Toyota recall ?

    Phillips may have corrected it's quality issue -- I don't know. Certainly though, the OEM label is no guarantee of quality in this case.
     
  16. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    This is a jumble of incoherent facts. In 2006, the industry changed from D2S/D2R bulbs to D4S/D4R bulbs. Phillips is the OEM for most auto manufacturers. The difference is that the D4X bulbs do not have any mercury in them, better for the environment after disposal. However the "recipe" was not so good in 2006 and 2007 and it was improved after that. Toyota went cutting edge, and it bit them in the a$$. Just like how some of the first cars with LED headlamps have them failing early because of overheating. Someone has to learn, Toyota took one for the team. D4X bulbs will never last as long as D2X bulbs with the current recipes either. Mercury is needed to stabilize the reaction sometimes and whatever they are using now (trade secrets) doesn't work as well.
     
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  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Thanks for the history lesson. Somehow I doubt that circa 2006/2007 bulbs being sold on Ebay are advertised as such, which I think brings us back to my point: just knowing that the bulb is Phillips is no guarantee of quality.
     
  18. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    It is a guarantee of quality, as they are consistently above the rest. There were no good D4X bulbs produced in those couple years. They all sucked. Now they are better.
     
  19. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    You seem to be assuming same (or close to) manufacturing years. Would you prefer a Phillips made in 2007, or a generic made in 2013 ?

    Anyway, IIRC the people who experienced early failures had trouble figuring out which bulbs to buy and were instructed to buy the D4x because that was the OEM version. Irony
     
  20. James4455

    James4455 Junior Member

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    This is a really informative article, I love to learn things. Especially timely for me as I am unsatisfied with my 2013 Prius lights. I was ready to upgrade but after reading about all the problems and expense my stock lights seem much better. Guess I'll just have to do all my driving in daylight! Hundreds of dollars for bulbs that may only last a month or so is ridiculous!!!!