Toyota CEO comments on GM

They're only saying you are crazy IF you don't get a Toyota franchise? :blink:

Just kidding, malorn, even if we don't agree on all this stuff at least you seem to have a good sense of humor at times.

 

No doubt, as due diligence in your role in that investment commitee, you read the enviro reports of Toyota and GM. Would like to share your findings ?

I have read both; so if you decide to reply, please refrain from BS

 

Jumping into the middle of a thread...

I think GMs and Fords problem stems from quality and design problems 10 - 15 years ago. They where at a point to arrogant to believe that the Japanese could build a better car, cheaper (I think we all where!). I think today they build cars with similar quality to Japanese and at a similar price. I think that is part of the problem.

The japanese to compete with the Americans undercut the price in the beginning while providing better quality (through the late 80's and into the 90's). Once they had a solid name for themselfs they raised they price to where they today are probably slightly more expensive then Ford and GM. I know that Lexus now for example is more expensive the Mercedes the car they have been imitating all along.

GM and Ford lost credibility by a late response to the Japanese cars and so today I don't think it's enough to be of similar quality at a similar price. This is not enough to make people (like me) who grow up on Japanese cars switch "we" like to play it safe even if we pay a premium. They have to provide something that the Japanese car manufacturers do not. The problem is that they can't really become exclusive (like BMW or Merceds) since they are too big and need to sell a lot of cars; They can't really undercut prices with union contracts and retirement costs. And they can't at the moment seem to create a higher quality car (and even if they today have higher quality it will take a long time to make people see it). So I'm not sure what they can do at the moment to regain market share. There are a few areas where the excel, I can think of large SUVs, Muscle Cars and Pick-up trucks. These have and are very popular but demand might be softening.

And competition is about to become even worse. Korean manufacturers are now undercutting prices (again) and providing very solid qiualities (and guarantees). They are doing exactly what the Japanese did 10-15 years ago and are slowly succeeding. With them in the market it will be even thougher for all manyfacturers including Toyota. How long before the Corrolla and Camry are not the default choice and instead they will be called Spectra and Sonata? In my mind they are about one generation behind now. They used to be two to three.

I wish I could see a good way out of this for GM and Ford but I don't. They need to provide something more then "we're like them" but the can't seem to do it on Quality or Price. They also seem to lag PR wise in Environmental issues (though Ford is trying). I guess GM is trying Design and Power as their way out but both are dangerous grounds to be on. You really want to be known for Quality and Price.

 

Obviously it's not an issue of breaking rules. I just wonder about motive...it seems you're trying to get a rise out of us. I'm new, so maybe after I've been here awhile I'll look upon you as everyone else does. I think I now get some of the jokes from others...they were making fun of some one whose name rhymes with something, I guess it was you.

If you're the guy who argued that some Buick gets better mileage then a Prius.. :blink: .then I could have stopped taking you seriously weeks ago!

 

Quick everybody bookmark!

 

SIGH. You didn't mention fuel economy for the non-hybrid. You're twisting your argument in weird directions just to bash the Camry in places where we weren't even discussing it. Your quote:

Tideland replied that in addition to the hybrid, they also have bluetooth handsfree technology, smart key system, push button start.

Where is the GM or Ford car with bluetooth so I can keep my phone in my pocket when I go into my car? Where is the SKS technology so I don't have to reach for my key ever to get into my car and start it?

I think you are way to quick to dismiss the Camry just because it's a Toyota, and you WISH it to be a bland inferior product.

 

Correction: he made the claim, everyone here pointed out the obvious fallacy, he changes it so that it's "just one story."

 

Listening to you... you seem to be saying that being a big polluter and staying quiet about environmental issues, and not having anything to say to claim that you are green is much better than being a slightly less big polluter but being proud of that fact and advertising it.

You seem to think it's this HUGE sin that Toyota is proud of their accomplishments and are claiming to be green tho in reality they are only "sorta" green...

While what GM is doing is not as bad.

The fact remains that GM, Ford, and DCX sells a lot more trucks in this country than Toyota, Honda... etc. Trucks pollute more than cars. Therefore, GM puts out more polluting vehicles on the roads that Toyota does, every year.

Is that your beef? You think Toyota is a bunch of hypocrites because they are only "sorta" green and yet they are proud of being very green? What course of action could Toyota take to make YOU, malorn, happy? Stop selling trucks? Will that save GM?

 

Start there. Material you think is skewed or false, say so, and defend your opinion.

Much better than your currrent state of abysmal ignorance.

 

Well, if truth is what your after...sure, they can say they're greener. I remember GM touting the Yukon as "The most fuel efficient vehicle in it's class." Is that the class of cars that get single digit MPG. :lol:

I'm not going to start calculating numbers, but if you want, consider taking the average MPG of the fleet Toyota offers, then the fleet GM offers and see, then see who is doing more to reduce emissions.

 

You can do what ever you want, I am not a statistician.

 

From Toyota's 2005 Enviro Report

 

Fleet mpg, broken down by vehicle class 2005 (same 2005 report). Hybrids EXCLUDED. Wouldn't want the industry to look too pathetic in comparison.

 

Not true. Compare the 4 cylinder Camry automatic to the 4 cylinder malibu (same year) and Camry has less emissions (6.9 tons vs 7.1 for Malibu). The camry also has better milage and yet a larger engine. So it seems that the Camry is better?Side-by-Side

Same goes for 6 cylinder.... That said they are def close to one another... the Camry being slightly better.