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Mig1 and 2 numbers after inverter pump fail code today

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by cvincent, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. cvincent

    cvincent Junior Member

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    Earlier today i was driving home from Texas and running about 85-88mph for a good while

    I pulled the inverter pump fail code out in the middle of nowhere, 50-60 miles from El Paso

    Pulled off, car seemed fine, checked the codes
    Decided to clear it and drive a ways to see if it would come back

    Patrick said to check for bubbles in coolant tank and i do not have any

    Drove 60 into El Paso with no problems

    Spent 2 hours searching how to get my scan gauge to read inverter coolant temp on a gen II

    All i could find we're these mig 1 and 2, so I programmed them and these are the numbers i am seeing at around 70-73mph
    It1 Running around 208-212
    It2 Around 170-175

    I found a post saying they should not get to 232, but that is all i found
    Outside temp is 68-73 right now

    I do not even know what these 2 numbers represent, any info or feedback on all this would be great

    Pump fail code has not come back on, I am not pushing it and I am going to try and make it to the dealership in Tucson
    I have nothing running in the car, no ac, radio , etc. just the mfd is on
    This is an 08 with 100,000 miles
     
  2. It would be a lot more prudent to lower your speed, also if the inverter pump reservoir is low you could top it up, normal operating temp can be checked winth your finger. When running right it is just over body temp. Running too fast is what did it, but the overheating and low level can also cause air in the system, which causes the pump to cavitate. Bleeding the Air out is really simple.
     
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  3. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Put your hand on the top of the Inverter. It norm runs around 110F so you could leave it on there for a while during proper pump op. Yours will be substantially hotter. Your MG should not be in the 200's either.
    So you have no transmission or Inverter cooling and are presently overheating both.You can drive the car till you overheat the inverter to the point of it shutting itself off to protect itself. At that point it throws alot of codes and the car goes dead. To put it plainly you can easily total the car damaging the trans and inverter driving extended distance with no pump.
    If you must drive the car put bag of ice on the inverter as often as possible.
     
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  4. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    If you are looking inside the inverter coolant reservoir, you should see turbulence on the surface, indicating flow. If no motion, then there is no circulation happening, which means no pump working.

    Those Scangauge numbers are the temperature readouts for the thermocouples in the windings of motor-generator 1 (the smaller one) and motor-generator 2 (the larger one). The numbers you see are in the extreme hot range, just below that which would set a DTC. The inverter is also in that loop, so it is also likely very high as well. While the car may be running OK in the cooler weather, this is not good for longevity, and you should get the pump replaced ASAP. If you haven't had the transaxle fluid replaced yet, it would be good to do so after running it such an elevated temperature.
     
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  5. cvincent

    cvincent Junior Member

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    i am sitting at las cruces toyo and i dont like the way this is going already, they are freaking out that i cleared the code with the scan gauge , surely there is some kind of record in the computer system or there is a way for them to diagnose it is working properly or not
    they wont even do a parts search for this area to see if an inverter pump is available or not until they can diagnose it which will be after noon
    they are freaking out about the air suspension
    basically freaking out that a woman will know anything about her car and is trying to discuss this with them at all

    i dont have any of these issues at precesion and i wish i had taken a flight home and come back and gotten it with my truck and flatbed

    i really hate dealing with any shops i dont use and know
     
  6. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    If there is no flow in the reservoir, that should provide an easy diagnosis for any mech!!! Simply show him that there is no turbulence.

    If I were you, I would be tempted to buy the inverter pump and some tools and do it myself. It isn't that hard and not many tools are required.
     
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  7. cvincent

    cvincent Junior Member

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    ok so here is the final deal, they say the inverter pump is testing out fine, also that you cannot see air bubbles etc in that reservoir to tell if i is working or not.......... sooo

    the car shows no other codes, etc
    they told me even if i had not cleared the code that they would have checked the inverter and if it was working like now they would not replace it
    they think it is either a fluke possibly because i was pushing it for so many miles or that the inverter pump is weak and that pushing it bothered it etc
    that it may go out but is working now

    i am not against doing it myself but the car is under warranty

    they did find the water pump was leaking a little and we replaced that under warranty

    so according to toyota the car is fine

    so i am driving it home to tucson- 300 miles and will see what happens

    i will write when i get home about where the mig numbers were and also how it does

    i REALLY wish someone could figure the scan gauge code for the inverter pump coolant temp or whatever so we could know that
     
  8. cvincent

    cvincent Junior Member

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    i see on my post on the genII tech forum there is no sensor for inverter pump coolant temp, so that is not going to happen

    i am not sure what to think about all this, the fact the dealer guys say you cannot see the turbulence etc in the reservoir and everyone on here says you can
    i checked again after they worked on it and i do not see anything moving at all....

    trying to discuss mig temps with these guys went nowhere, they dont know what i am talking about, but of course i am dealing with a service advisor

    hitting the rd now, will write after i get home
     
  9. cvincent

    cvincent Junior Member

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    Lol, got 30 miles down the rd and all the dash lights went nuts, so waiting on the dealer to send me a wrecker, gee this is fun
     
  10. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    F***ing typical. Stealerships just won't replace a part without being absolutely sure that they will be reimbursed by Toyota for the warranty repair. An HV inverter water pump that is functioning correctly will always have turbulence in the reservoir.

    Here's a video from Luscious Garage - it's not the best quality but you can see fluid moving. Show this video to the idiot at Las Cruces Toyota.

     
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  11. HaroldW

    HaroldW Active Member

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    If it pumping you will see the flow. You have to look very carefully because it is not easy to see!Oh and you will not see bubbles. H
     
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  12. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    With a new pump, it's REALLY easy to see the turbulence. It is with the one just installed in mine last month. I couldn't believe the difference compared to the original. And I agree, no bubbles - unless you add some LOL!
     
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  13. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Hmm, I checked for turbulence on mine in the past two weeks and I can easily see it. My inverter pump was replaced 3/18/11, per my request (given the LSC). Crossing my fingers that it holds up for at least as long as the original...
     
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  14. cvincent

    cvincent Junior Member

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    great info guys, i looked at mine at least 4 times in the past day and again today after they had it and i am 95% sure there was no movement whatever
    i am going over to the dealership in the morn before they open and i will check again
    and you can be assured that if there is movement at all in that reservoir after it gets replaced that was not there before i will be educating all the service techs and mechanics in this dealership about it before i leave, hopefully no one else will have to go through this with them again
    i cannot wait to see it after the new one is installed, i just hope we can get the part tomorrow and i am not stuck here another day
     
  15. Bleeding the air out of that separate inverter coolant system, should be part of the whole process. Make sure they do that. We have had reports previously where they did not bleed the air out at all OR insufficiently. If the air is not bled out, there will be no volatility, you'll be pumping air!
     
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  16. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I really cannot believe the incompetence exhibited by whomever is working on your car. Failure of the inverter coolant pump should not be a big surprise since that dealership would have had the opportunity to replace those pumps on almost all 2004-2007 model year Prius in their service area. Those cars were subject of a recent Limited Service Campaign (LSC, aka recall) and one of the links below provides more info.

    I have attached a few pages out of the Toyota repair manual. See step #4 which describes how to check inverter coolant pump operation, and note the text: "OK: Coolant is sloshing in the reservoir tank"

    What this means, is to look for fluid turbulence.

    This is not rocket science and you would be justified in giving the dealership service manager a very hard time for:

    1) the tech's lack of ability to diagnose the problem and
    2) the very long time spent to resolve the problem.

    If you are charged for this repair, I suggest you write to the Toyota Customer Experience Center in Torrance, CA; providing a copy of your repair invoice, and requesting reimbursement since your car is having the same problem as the cars covered by the LSC.

    Good luck, it sounds like you will need it.

    For reference, please see:
    How to Replace the Inverter Coolant Pump | PriusChat
    LSC A0N - HV (Inverter) Water Pump; Dealer Letter and Technical Instructions | PriusChat
     

    Attached Files:

  17. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Be aware the older the coolant is the less you will see movement. It gets contaminated with aluminum corrosion
    which is very abrasive and I suspect eventually destroys the pump.
    I changed my coolant at 35,000 miles as I noticed it did not have as strong a turbulence as when new and had white dust in the cap. I took some out and it looked bad. New coolant improved turbulence plus I used this product in the tank too:


    Red Line Synthetic Oil - WaterWetter® Coolant Additives - WaterWetter®


    Now 20,000 miles later fluid looks clean, no more white dust, and good turbulence.

    Btw, if you like what we are doing to help you there's a LIKE button on the bottom right of our posts. Click the blue word like.
     
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  18. cvincent

    cvincent Junior Member

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    ok they replaced my inverter pump, big surprise
    and of course now i have all kinds of turbulence when before it was still as glass

    before the lights all came back on and i had to be towed back the mig 1 and 2 were running like 215 and 170
    this was in 80 degree weather doing 70mph
    then the dash lit up and i called and told them to send me a tow truck i was not driving it back period


    so after inverter pump change
    in 85 degree weather running 80mph
    mig 1 ran about 120-139
    mig 2 ran about 107-120

    so huge difference

    this was all hwy driving and i have not gotten to observe city numbers yet

    i think everyone should run a scan gauge and watch these numbers , it is an easy thing to do and if you are out of warranty probably prudent
    and i plan to do some more research on other x gauges i can set and watch

    i showed the service advisor the turbulence and explained about all that but seriously doubt they listened at all, these guys just wanted me OUT of their shop asap

    it was not a good experience all around with them, i had other stuff done too, maintenance stuff and when you pick your car up there you just go to the cashier, get your keys and leave
    no one goes over what was done with your car, when they think anything else might need work, etc, etc
    i have never been to a dealership that does not have the service advisor go over what has been done and observed on your car
    and i watched them check out several people, it was not just me they did that to

    also i ask them to clean the brakes since i had not had it done in a while and when i got the bill it lists rear brakes as cleaned???? do we not clean the fronts on the prius also?

    i am definitely writing toyota about the whole thing
     
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  19. cvincent

    cvincent Junior Member

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    i also agree with edthefox, i would change this coolant often, i really think it makes sense

    this car is up for sale but if i dont sell it then i will watch my scan gauge numbers and if at any time they start changing/going up i will change the inverter pump myself if i am out of warranty
     
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  20. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Great! That dealer sucks. You scare them as your pretty competent with the scangauge. They don't like that.

    Those new MG numbers look right on the money. Maybe a tiny bit higher than what I see in my car but I have fresh atf on board.
    Which leads me to one more thing:
    Since you have stressed out the trans I suggest if you end up keeping it to have the trans fluid replaced. You cooked it pretty good. But not by those dummies. Its very very easy to do and any indy can handle it. I have done mine twice so far in the driveway. Just open bolt...dump fluid...close that bolt (make sure you have that bolt end cleaned as it has a magnet on it). Open fill bolt and pump in 4 quarts of Toyota WS Fluid. Around $10 a quart at the dealer parts counter.

    I change my trans fluid and Inverter coolant every 35,000 miles. The Inverter coolant change is wicked easy. Alot of us on here do. Its cheap. And will help get the car to 200K + miles with no big drama.
     
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