Replacing the PiP battery

Source that "there will definitely be"?

There aren't even any battery upgrades for the existing non-Plugin Priuses, only various hacky to semi-hacky kits that supplement the existing NiMH battery. Some of them are unreliable. It seems the most reliable was HyMotion but they got out of that business before A123 Systems, the maker of the kit (but many other li-ion batteries and solutions) went bankrupt.

There are people doing re-mans like Remanufactured Hybrid Vehicle Battery Packs though.

And this is with the HUGE installed based of existing Priuses (millions sold) vs. the sold in very limited numbers PiP (November 2012 Dashboard | Hybrid Cars).

 

i've considered tacking on a few more batteries just to get me to work and back without recharging and maybe provide a little electric heat/defrost. how hard could it be? i'm not concerned about the warranty and i'm not waiting 10 years. i don't even buy green banana's!

 

I am going to assume this is a troll....

 

membrane since '05?

 

seeing how far prius came along in 10 years, i wouldn't plan 10 years ahead regarding battery replacement.
Lithium prices are falling, there are also plans for other alternative fuel cars like hydrogen fuel-cells.
In 10 years 50mpg might look like gas guzzler, who knows

 

That I highly doubt. Car improvements and car FE improvement do not follow Moore's Law. I still see an INSANE number of battering ram of death class SUVs running around, some new which get in the ~15 mpg combined range. I unfortunately don't see that changing much unless gas hits $8+/gallon, we have a severe oil crises/shortage (like in the 70s or in NY/NJ after Sandy), or a lot of people come to their senses.

Even with Historic 54.5 MPG Still Goal in Final 2025 CAFE Rules, the "54.5 mpg" (per CAFE standards) is equal to about 36 mpg combined.

 

LOL. Ten years ago, there was a moron in the White House, and everyone was rich- or thought they were, anyway.

 

I agree.

Battery Technology will increase the power, while reducing the size, weight and cost.
Just look at the Prius in the last 10 years. Who would have imagined going from a Prius Gen1 to a PIP? Now everyone is trying to copy and catch up to it.

If you need it now, get an add-on battery.

I'll enjoy what I have and trade up as technology adds features.

 

I have a 2002 Gen I Prius (154000 miles) and an Advanced PiP. I have had some inquiries about the Gen I, but I am hesitant to sell it to someone I know due to uncertainty about the traction battery.

 

I disagree. You're paying for petrol what we paid about 10 years ago. At these prices your cars are going to have to improve their fuel economy or a lot of average people will not be able to afford to run them. That might not bother you (speaking generally), but less fuel efficient cars will demand less of a trade in/second hand value as their prospective purchasers, who by their very nature are poorer, will want more economical cars. Also, we all know the price of petrol in 5 or 10 years time will be more than it is now and thus a gas guzzler by todays standards will be a ridiculous monstrosity by then.

 

I would imagine that in about 5 years the current battery size in the PIP could be replaced
with a same size and weight battery that will perhaps have 4-6 times more storage capacity.

So 40-60 miles on a charge would be the norm.....

 

And how do you figure that will happen? From Toyota Hybrids Celebrates 15 Years of Success on December 10 2012 | PriusChat, there have been nearly 5 million Toyota full hybrids sold since Toyota started. Where's the profitable battery replacement and upgrade market for those?

The PiP is only sold in limited areas and has a tiny installed base. Look at the sales numbers at November 2012 Dashboard - HybridCars.com vs. the rest of the Prius family and other Toyota hybrids. All of the non-plugin Toyota hybrids sold in the US still use NiMH.

Hopefully you realize that costs for products includes research, development, testing, tooling, training, distribution, administrative costs, amongst many others. That cost must be amortized over many units. If you can't sell many units, you're not going to make back that cost. If you price it too high, nobody will buy it.

Really? How do you figure that? As I said, battery technology is not progressing at the rate of Moore's Law.

 

Current PiP has an (IIRC) 3.2kwh pack. With a compound 8% annual improvement in energy density (the figure Tesla sometimes quote) you could expect the car to have a 4.7kwh pack in 5 years, a range of roughly 19 miles. That would be a nice upgrade for the 2nd gen PiP, and coupling it with a less restricted EV mode (since that pack would also have better power density) seems like a plausible upgrade path for Toyota.

 

That increase sounds a LOT more realistic. That's about ~47% increase in capacity, not 4-6 TIMES.

I still find it unlikely that Toyota would bother to sell upgraded battery packs to PiP owners for the same reasons I cited. They don't do it for the much larger installed based of regular Priuses.

 

4.7 kw would be perfect for me, but that's the trouble with ev's. evryone needs a slightly different range. ultimately, a selection of battery size or inexpensive larger battery capacity will really create mass sales.

 

Anybody heard from Jim with the PIS kit?

 

I would bet money that this is a PIS troll and I wouldn't doubt if Jim is a PIS troll.

 

Would be a great kit if it were a reality... oh well

Interesting enough... with all the talk as to how the mileage estimates are dropping (which I also saw-from 12 to 9.5 or so) I changed my commute from the freeway to surface streets and speed from 62 to around 40. Aside from getting the one finger salute and tailgating from time to time, my mileage estimates are up and rising. Up to 10.6 even in the colder weather (sorry guys in other parts of the country... 55 is cold here in Ventura, LOL) and increasing. All how you drive!