prius denial

Bluejay, I also have a Saturn L wagon and belong to a Saturn board (saturnfans.com) and although Saturn did a good job on the older S series cars, the L series cars were problematic. If you post something bad about Saturn on Saturnfans you get the same thing (Hey this is SaturnFANS, go somewhere else, or How could Saturn have done something bad, my 99 S has XXX thousand miles and hasn't been a problem)
Also have a Mazda protege and belong to a Mazda board. Boy talk about rabid enthusiasm, just try saying something bad about Mazda there (The 1.5 liter Protege's are a bit underpowered) and you'll get your head bitten off.

Just the way things are, there's always gonna be some small percentage who take any critisim of their car choice personally.

 

It takes all kinds. As far as the drop in mileage, you didn't give all the details required for us to jump on your case Of course, we all want to know how new are you to the car, what's the mileage, weather, etc, etc.

There are a bajillion threads regarding winter mileage and such. I'm down (expectedly because it's winter and like to drive without frost on the inside glass ) anywhere from 5 to 10 miles per gallon and I can't sqeeze much fuel into that frozen bladder so my miles-per-tank is really crushed.

 

I think bluejay is right. We need to be supportive in this community, and that means supporting people who have difficulty with their Prius, too. I've seen a lot of posts which fall into this category. Honestly, the Prius isn't the perfect answer for everybody. Perhaps we are too quick to label someone a "troll" when they just want to express their frustration.

I'm not saying we need to be doormats, but permit people to express themselves frankly and propose positive solutions if they exist instead of commenting on their probable parentage and mental capacity. But if they are only venting and not interested in solutions, then thank them for sharing and move on -- no point in starting a giant p*ssing contest.

This is one of the most positive boards I participate in. The wealth of expertise here is phenomenal. My dealer couldn't tell me ANYTHING I didn't already know, and I clued him in on several things he DIDN'T. All from reading this board. It prepared me for Prius ownership and it sustains me when I have questions. All of you are one awesome bunch!

 

I'm not great at the special mpg techniques but I can get the car to glide under 41 mph. For the most part my driving consists of highway. I just set the cruise control to 60mph and have no problem averaging over 50mpg regardless of the outside temps. I do about 75 miles a day. There's just no beating the cruise control (imho).

 

Good subject that needs to be brought up every now and again. This really is one of the most cordial boards out there. I'm an administrator on the other one.

I've been on a Honda Civic board, and wow, I can barey read the thing. It is all written in text-message-eze, if you know what I mean. And there are entire threads filled with single character (not word, mind you, but character) comments. I feel so old.

Anyway, I appreciate what we've hot here, and I'm thrilled to be part of the community, though this Prius marks my "falling off the wagon" of gasoline non-usage. Due to you guys, I've already spend sevearl $100 before there's even a glimmer of hope of my '06 showing up! Thanks. I think.

 

I looked at the alternatives and decided on the Prius, as it met my objectives:

1. Superior fuel economy
2. Low emissions
3. Proven crash test results
4. Easy to park in city driving

No domestic brand came close, not even worth mentioning. I had considered a Golf tdi, but it flunked the emissions part, and also I didn't want to deal with a diesel-powered vehicle in such a cold climate.

The Honda Civic and Toyota Echo Hatchback were very close, but at the time I couldn't get side airbags. Same as the Corolla, though shortly after getting my Prius they were available.

I doubt I have my head buried in my Prius, I see it, warts and all. And I certainly do *not* pledge allegiance to Toyota Motor Corp, as Malorn appears to think we all do. I don't like *any* large company, they're all the same: they have their best interest at heart, not ours, and if the two coincide we luck out.

My winter fuel economy last winter was quite a bit worse than my summer fuel economy, try 9.8 l/100km or around 28 MPG. Comparing notes with my co-workers, that was still very good fuel economy for the conditions.

I posted some gripes about the *very* poor heater performance last winter. I appear to have resolved that problem by making a winter front and keeping the lower grille and upper slits blocked off.

I'm disappointed in the rock hard ride quality of my Prius. True, most cars now appear to offer "firm" suspensions. My winter tires help take the edge off potholes and frost heaves, but in summer the ride can become very uncomfortable.

In particular, if I try to drive on washboardy gravel roads, the car feels like its shaking to pieces unless I slow down below 30 km/h.

If I drive a floaty land barge like my Dad's 2003 Buick LeSabre down the same roads, it just floats over the ripples. It also tracks better too, but gets 1/2 the fuel economy.

I did have highway tracking issues at first delivery. The complimentary alignment helped a lot, but didn't cure it. Putting on Michelin Harmony tires helped a bit. Moving the little chin spoilers to the front under the air dam made a big difference, though I had to move them back for winter driving.

On a safety issue, my biggest concern was the overly-aggressive traction control. With the OEM tires or Michelin Harmony tires, the car would barely move when the light turned green. Yes, I know how to drive in winter: the "on or off" traction control is poorly programmed. When you do finally get stuck in snow, it's *impossible* to rock the car. That also happened to me.

The traction control in my dad's 2003 Buick LeSabre is *much* more effective, and it also has a disable button at the end of the column shift. With the studded Cooper Weathermaster ST/2 tires, you really have to bury the car before it's stuck.

I - mostly - resolved the traction control issue by using good winter tires. This winter I'm running Yokohama Ice Guard 10 tires. I firmly believe in winter tires for winter conditions, anyway, so it wasn't a *sacrifice* on my part. I was recently able to convince my condo association to allow studded tires in the heated underground parking, so next winter I'm running studded Nokian tires.

Am I being overly harsh about my Prius? I don't think so, give me time and I can nitpick every vehicle I have every owned. Especially that unreliable gas guzzling 2000 GMC Sierra SLT.

 

maybe its different now than when i first started here and that may only be human nature at work. let me explain.

when i started here, there were only a small handful that were getting the most of their Prius. (mostly because only a small handful HAD their Prius@!!) so it was a learning curve for everyone. probably more give and take because there was very little "proven" baseline information, only some bits and pieces. eventually, we started comparing notes, examining some hypermiler techniques, and soon there was a sort of unwritten "manual" written on what needed to be done to get EPA.

today, when PriusChatters come on and they complain they are getting 41 mpg... what are we supposed to do???

Ahh I'm so sorry you are disappointed in your car when we know better?? if mileage is your main concern, there is more than enough information on this site to improve your driving technique.

if you want to improve your mileage, it will happen. you will have to do some research. lots of reading. you might want to take a look at my blog. i have summarized a lot of things that most new Prius owners may want to know. this will save you a lot of searching (won't save you a lot of reading because i admit to rambling...) my information is not complete by any means. but reading some of them will eliminate most of the new posts by people who dont know what is going on with their cars.

this site has gotten big and that is not a good thing for newbies. it just makes the information more overwhelming. so we have a knowledge base or "best known methods, FAQ or whatever term you are comfortable with and if one read it, i find it hard to believe that they will still say they get bad mileage and dont know why.

to say that veterans here have an attitude is completely and totally wrong. my attitude, if any, comes from one after another posting the exact same thing, day after day after day. what you perceive as a rude reply is not. i dispense with "awe bummer" crap because its a waste of your time and mine. just the facts. i think there is a level of frustration here when good-hearted, knowledgeable people here spend a large amount of their time here to put together an knowledge base, which is apparently ignored.

so next time, you think you are getting brushed off, re-read it again with a different point of view and see how it reads. the printed word with no emotion is usually taken the way of the person's attitude at the time. if you are feeling frustation with your car and the post you read doesnt exactly address your problem (and it rarely will since we can only address specifics which are almost never available... and the OP is a prime example. but i realize the point of the OP's is not to look for answers)

 

I understand. We love our Prius. We got our neighbor (huge house next door) who used to drive nothing but Mercedes, then he got a Highlander and Sequioa, and enjoyed the Toyota's (had a growing family -triplets). When the carpool bill got signed, he bought a Prius the next day and tells everyone how he loves it. He says it drives like a real car, handles well, and saves him about an hour a day in his drive. Granted it does not fit the entire family for long drives with all the stuff, but he enjoys it for what is was made for.

 

for those of you that ARE looking for answers

http://priuschat.com/forums/kb.php


it is "read only" but should be labled "read first"

 

Some people do take it personally when the Prius is criticized. Not sure why. It's only a car. I bought one becuase I commute 120 miles a day by myself. I did not need to be driving my 13 mpg Explorer for that. However, the Prius falls way short when compared to my Explorer or my XC90 in many ways. Liek it or not, that's simply a matter of fact. I've been told I pack too much, or I don't know how to organize, or all kinds of stuff. I'm not sure why some people are in denial about the limitations of the Prius. It's a wonderful car, I love mine, but it is far from perfect. For that matter, all cars are. I can't think of a single existing car, at ANY price, that I consider perfect. Sure there are car that perform a particular function exceptionally well, but none that perform all of them well.

Obviously the Prius is my daily driver for my commute.

WHen I need to tow or haul lots of stuff, I use the Explorer, it can't be beat.

Finally, on long family trips, we thake the Volvo. It fits all our gear, up to 7 people comfortably, and is the pinnacle of safety.



WHich car is my favorite? Well, I can't say. It all depends on what I need to do.

And for those who vehemently deny any flaw at all in the Prius, get real, get a life. It's only a car. I'm th first to admit I love cars, they are a passion, but at least I'm realistic. To take personal offense is simply silly. Grow up.

 

I don't think the car is perfect, I just never expected to get 60MPG and didn't get disappointed. My last car was a small saturn SC2 that got as low as 17MPG during city heavy A/C driving. So getting 40MPG tanks doesn't bother me, since I'm getting more car with half the gas.

A more efficient car like the Prius creates much less engine waste, both heat and wasted motion. In a conventional car, some of this waste goes to heat (cabin, engine, and emissions controls) or powering A/c, so you don't notice as big of a mileage hit since you're just using energy that would normally be lost anyway.

In cold temperatures, if you made a long high speed highway trip, say cross country, you'd see much less of a mileage penalty. In this sceanario, the engine is making extra waste heat like a regular car.

While it's disappointing to see our MPGs go down in winter, you can take comfort the engine is more thermally efficient, since we're using more of the heat we'd otherwise send out the radiatior. Doesn't that make you feel better?

Yeah me neither.

 

I currently have a 10 year old SC2 (178K miles) and can't wait to take delivery of my Prius. It will be like a whole new realm of driving to me, and it's so much roomier than the Saturn plus it will have so many more gadgets. Did you ever try to fit 4 people in your SC2? I've never seen a more cramped and uncomfortable car ride when I tried it, LOL!

But I'm not also looking for the Prius to be the be-all end-all of all cars. So what if it doesn't get 61/50 epa-rated mpgs. My current car gets 29/24. And it's an old, teeny tiny compact coupe. So anything will be an improvement on that, believe me.

The Prius happens to fit my needs perfectly-low emissions, great mpg's, roomy interior, safety features, hatchback, great gadgets (I'm elated at the thought that I will have Nav, bluetooth, rear backup camera, 6-disc cd player, sks, and the homelink garage door opener)- to name a few of the things I love about it. And I don't even have 'it' yet!

 

While Dave may assumed on the veterans having an attitude part, I think he has good points. Those that have been around the board for awhile all too often see those who come complaining about their mileage and stating that they were cheated, are going to sue, etc, etc. That gets annoying after awhile, especially when the information is available, even if people don't know it is avialable. I think that often the rub is when people who haven't done their research start complaining and throwing accusations around without asking for help/information first.

I don't think there are many here who would say there isn't a single problem with the Prius. Part of the downside of the board being generally more educated than the general public is that they don't just accept one person's story to be evidence of a fault. So if someone complains about a problem (one example that was not too long ago was not enough interior lights), everyone is not going to just agree that there is a problem with lighting. Many people responded with their own experiences of how there were more interior lighting in the Prius than all of their Prius vehicles.

I don't want to paint a picture of PCers being perfect though,as we are just as subject as anyone else to being defensive about something we have invested time/money/attention to. I'm not saying it's right, but I think it is not taking what others say to heart without some thought and the natural defensiveness that combines to lend an air that criticism is not accepted.

By the way, have I said today that I love my Prius?

Just to be fair, did I say today that I hate how the dash is on the passenger side (curving in to reduce leg room)? :angry:

 

bluejay, you're properly pointing to a problem endemic to any "enthusiast" board or group. To me, it's largely a matter of degree. I've been part of four Yahoo Prius groups, this one and Priusonline. This is one of the two groups most welcoming of newbies and tolerant of repetitive questions, IMO. A handful of people on two of the Yahoo groups got so sanctimonious and unfriendly, even towards each other as "veterans", that I couldn't stand it any more. I felt too badly for newbies who were getting ripped---or simpy ignored. That's why I migrated over here several months ago.

Obviously, it's at least a double-"sided" and multifaceted problem. The newbie may or may not have an urgent problem. He/she may or may not have even read the owners' manual. She/he may or may not have taken the time to explore the site a little---does it have FAQ? Archives? How effectively does it search? How hard is it to find a thread about my problem that may have been posted a year or two ago?

I doubt ANYone here who joined, say, after Jan. '05 has slogged through all the old threads and explored "search" and the Knowledge Base before posting a question. Only a relatively small handful of founders and "true veterans" can remember if and how many times a topic has been addressed before.

On the "veterans'" side, yes, there are a few on the "the Prius can do no wrong" end of the spectrum. And there are personality differences, same as anywhere. Sometimes how "warmly" you and your problem are welcomed simply depends on the luck involved in who sees or responds to your post first. And sometimes veterans DO simply tire of the same yada yada repeated ( it seems to them)endlessly.

And some DO ask up front, "did you RTFM?", or "have you searched?", having less tolerance for those who haven't RTFM or who may not realize that MPG questions are almost as frequent as the dishes getting dirty. To them, a newbie should at least pass the "I'm not lazy" test.

There's no "answer". What I've said is obvious to all and may not have needed saying (I'm pretty good at that ). I think the longer you participate on boards such as this, the more you'll naturally come to see the whole picture---and, hopefully (to me) maintain a high tolerance for naive newbies. I think the high tolerance/patience and outright friendliness factors prevalent at PC go a long way toward explaining its phenomenal growth.

Back to the original point: defensiveness about the car. Every once in a while there'll be a thread about "how could the Prius be improved?" or "what do you like least?" That's when the non-defensive ones all come out of the woodwork! Then even I will call someone "picky". :angry: