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My year with the Volt. Costs and Comparisons

Discussion in 'Chevrolet Volt' started by Voltdriver, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Since that is such a large amount, it's a good thing to know.

    Thanks!
     
  2. John H

    John H Senior Member

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    You will be happy to know that in the 2012 it may have improved a bit. I typically register 12kWh to restore 10.4kWh. Sometimes more if I do pre-conditioning.
     
  3. Voltdriver

    Voltdriver Junior Member

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    I was reminded, the Volts TMS eats up some electrons, which I'll take when you actually have a real investment in a battery. Plus, I rounded up. It wasnt a precise number. Not that I give a damn about MPGe, about the most worthless calculation there is for electric cars (at the moment).

    ^ You are probably correct. I wasn't trying to give a perfect measurement, as I had already given the measurement in an indirect form (be it with my actual MPGe and average kWh/100). I almost never deplete my battery, so almost all my charges are partial.
     
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I gave you a LIKE in addition to a THANKS and that's the response... Please start over.

    When calculating values like cost-per-mile, you must know how much total electricity it took, not just consumption while driving.

    And I don't place a lot of interest on MPGe either. People in general don't understand the influencing factors or even have a decent perspective to leverage from. It's all new to them, so it doesn't mean much beyond being higher or lower than others.
     
  5. Voltdriver

    Voltdriver Junior Member

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    Fair enough. My calculations include the total energy used to charge the car.
     
  6. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Do you preheat with electricity from the plug?
     
    dbcassidy likes this.
  7. Voltdriver

    Voltdriver Junior Member

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    No I do not. I don't find preheating very beneficial. I rarely use heat at all. My first cold season of Volt ownership I did not know how bad the heating was in the Volt. As a result, in the previous page, you saw that much higher kWh/100 miles figure in February.

    This season, while there is definitely a little loss over the summer with the TMS having to heat the loop, I am getting about 37-38 miles average (temps from the high 20s through 40s).
     
  8. roamerr

    roamerr Member

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    Great Write-up! Thanks!
     
  9. John H

    John H Senior Member

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    I will pre-condition the cabin while plugged in, particularly if I think I am going to push the ev range. I don't pay by the kWh, just a flat rate for the month, so the extra few watts or so gets me another few miles, albeit at the expense of MPGe.
     
  10. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Dang. Wish I had your elecytrical rate. I'm paying $0.11/kWh for my Tesla. 6 cents would nearly halve my fuel costs. I think your numbers look great, but you've got to be in about the lowest cost part of the country with rates like that.
     
  11. John H

    John H Senior Member

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    You need to move to Texas! TXU has a "free nights" rate plan now. I think that is helping Telsa sales in Houston even though it is the center of the Petroleum world.
     
  12. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    WOW! That would be awesome.
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Another electricity question if I may... how good have your charging-stations experiences been?

    I've seen a few ICE'd spots. That's very irritating. But what I really to know about is how the parking situation works with sharing. There are chargers with 2 spots around here, intended for level-1 and level-2 at the same time. I can't imagine that actually happening much. But I do envision the "ok to unplug when done" situation coming up more often as the plug-in population increases, especially when some pay-to-use spots allow you to remain parked there for up to 8 hours. Have you ever seen or done that?

    I could imagine some people being hesitent even with a note giving permission, especially knowing the owner could get a text-message or email informing them moments after it happens.
     
  14. Voltdriver

    Voltdriver Junior Member

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    I park normally at work where there is a bank of 4 L2 chargers. Normally, 2 are in use, sometimes 3. We havent had a situation where 4 is in use, but all the EV car owners know one another, and we know if we start seeing 4 spaces used, we will move our cars at the half way point, and put some contact information on our car (possibly cell phone number) if all the spaces are uses, and someone absolutely needs to charge. Right now, with such a small number of us, it is more of a community, so we can get by with this. There are already templates for space sharing notices online, that give permission of the person approaching your car to unplug it under certain circumstances.

    I had the perfect storm today with my Volt, which is why I like having the gas option. We were going to hit our peak demand last night, so I threw the charger breaker. Forgot to turn it back on. Only had 26 miles of range on a 36 mile commute. No biggie, I'll burn a little gas. Get to work to find all the charging spots marked off for restriping. No charging today. If I were in a shorter range all electric, and didnt have a gas backup, I'd be screwed.
     
  15. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    My annual mileage is about 12,000 miles now. I used to do 30,000 before telecommuting. I only had my PiP for 79 days so let me do calculation based on that.

    My electricity rate: $0.22 per kWh (without the base service charge, 32 cents per kWh with it)
    My gasoline: $3.70 per gallon (I filled up in both NJ and NY)

    [​IMG]

    Adding 15% charging loss to 240 kWh = 276 kWh consumed from the wall. Electricity cost is $60.72.

    Gas cost is 29 gallons x $3.70 = $107.3.

    My total fuel cost = $168.02 so it came out to 6.43 cents per mile.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If Voltdriver pays the same fuel prices as me, his cost per mile would be 6.94 cents per mile. Electricity would cost him $1,359.82 and $72.89 for gas for a total of $1,432.71.
     
  16. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Volt is probably the best car for Voltdriver. His electricity rates are very low (and slightly cleaner than national average) and he is able to take advantage of it with 97% EV ratio (by skipping 1,000 mile vacation trip). EPA uses 12 cents per kWh to calculate cost on the Monroney sticker so I think that's the average cost. In the states with cleaner electricity (CA and NY), the rates are about double the national average. Volt is rated to emit 240 gram of CO2 per mile in Raleigh, NC.

    PiP is the best plugin car for me due to the nature of my driving, charging pattern and the efficiency of both fuels. PiP is rated 190 gram of CO2 per mile here.

    If I have a Volt and get 97% EV, electricity would cost me $173 (@31kWh/100mi) and gas would cost me $8 (@36MPG). My cost of driving would come out to 6.9 cents per mile.

    Let's not forget that we are comparing a midsize to a compact and midsize costs less to operate (for me).
     
  17. Voltdriver

    Voltdriver Junior Member

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    After recomputing my numbers above, I am averaging 30 kWh/100 miles. I am also 97% electric.

    After 12,000 miles, I would have burned 10 gallons. 10 gallons would have cost me, at your rate $37.00
    After 12,000 miles, I would have used 3,492 kWh (12,000*.97/100*30) at a cost of $768.24 (.22 per kWh).

    Total cost: $768.24 + $37 = 805.

    Voltdriver cost per mile: $805/12000=.067. So, about 1/3 of a penny per mile more expensive.

    After 100k miles, it would cost you $6,430
    After 100k miles, it would cost me $6,700

    With your electric rate, double the national average, you are essentially paying for electricity what you pay for gasoline, which removes most if not all of the economic benefit of having a car.

    If you were in North Carolina, with my rate (.06) and we use the '12 average of $3.60, it would look like this.

    Your car @12k miles: 7,200 gas miles and 4,800 electric miles. You would use 134.33 gallons of fuel at a cost of $483. You would use $75 in electricity.

    Total cost of your car in NC: $557 or .046 per mile

    My cost with those same miles, but with my ratios of driving (97% electric): $209 (electric) + $36 = $245
    My cost per mile: 2 cents

    So, in NC, under your driving ratios, you are 2.5x as expensive as me.
    In NJ/NY, with your high electricity rates, you are marginally cheaper, with my ratio remaining the same.

    Extrapolated in NC: Over 100k miles, your car would cost me $2,600 more to own and operate, and in NJ, I'd pay $300 more over 100k miles to drive the Volt with far more electric range.

    As to what car is best for the individual, it is really going to come down to the valuations of what each car brings. While the Volt is smaller, it performs far better in 0-60 (by about 2 seconds), which is hugely important for people wanting sub 0-60 times coming from a higher performance car (like me). But if you need a 5th seat, it isnt possible in the Volt. I also think the Volt's interior, specfically the leather seats, blow away the Prius. But if you are someone who is going to drive way past the Volts 40 mile range often, you may value the prius more with its 15+ MPG improvement burning gas.

    Comparing electric cars and hybrids is not an easy thing.
     
  18. essaunders

    essaunders Member

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    The suggestion to include charging losses is a good one. my previous data (from my LEAF) are from the (potentially questionable) CARWINGS data, NOT from a meter. so i suspect my actual LEAF cost is ~20% more than I previously reported.

    It will always be very difficult to have an apples-to-apples for these types of cars. With gas cars all it took was a little care at the pump to be consistent and write down the right numbers. It seems very few people have accurate meters on their own EVSEs (I don't...) so we have to understand that uncertainty.
     
  19. Voltdriver

    Voltdriver Junior Member

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    You have to know how its measured. For example, if I use the screen in my car, I only use 10 kWh to drive ~40 miles. But it actually takes closer to 13 kWh to charge that. But Onstar takes this into account with their data collection. Above, it looks like the Prius only counts the energy consumed while driving, not while charging, which is why that user adds in a %.
     
  20. essaunders

    essaunders Member

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    Thanks for that - I'm glad at least Onstar gets the right number recorded (CARWINGS doesn't account for efficiency and I suspect preheating doesn't get counted either (i'm still researching that))

    I'd like to thank you again for posting your data (and putting up with skeptics) as I think it helps build an understanding of the options (PHEV, EREV, BEV, or other) that exist as they function in individual cases.