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Accelerator tactile resistance points to help mpg

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by briank101, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. briank101

    briank101 Member

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    The idea here being that there is a step increase in foot pressure at 2 or 3 key position points in accelerator pedal travel so that one does not have to resort to constantly monitoring the HSI indicator to give feedback on accelerator pedal position. One of the key position points would correspond to the border between the regen/EV region on the HSI. A 2nd possible point would be midway in the right half (engine on) region of the HSI. A 3rd possible point would be just at the right edge of the PWR region.

    I think this would benefit hypermilers (safety - less time looking at HSI) and allow regular drivers better mpg - by increasing likelihood of Prius powertrain being at operated at optimum efficiency points (for example, high pedal force to go beyond the right edge of the PWR region.

    I do have a some DIY rough proposals of how this could be achieved. I'm still debating whether I should set the force step increase points according to the ECO or Normal mode - I'm leaning toward the Normal mode as my wife does not like the throttle response in ECO mode and knows nothing of hypermiling.

    I'd attach a sketch jpg if I knew how. (Uploaded file but it won't show)
     
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  2. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    On my car there is sort of a built-in tactile sense for efficiency. :)

    I find that when accelerating, when I get to the spot right before entering the power section the gas pedal feel changes. The pedal feels like it is vibrating ever so lightly and the engine is being pushed harder. I don't know how to explain it but I can feel it quite clearly when I drive without a shoe. LOL
     
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  3. a priori

    a priori Canonus Curiosus

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    The OP's concerns remind me of our original threads in May and June of 2009, when those of us who had moved from Gen II to Gen III became concerned we couldn't "feel" our way into stealth mode. The new Gen III had become too smooth and too quiet. We laughed about it then and quickly realized the HSI (which never had been described and wasn't part of the Gen II world) was giving us information we'd only been able to gather through feel and experience in the Gen II (and noise/vibration).

    I like the non-stop thought processes being offered up by all of the drivers looking to get what is important to them out of the Prius. If there is a new DIY or a new suggestion of great value, it will be exciting to see whether Toyota will incorporate it into the next generation of the Prius. They've certainly done that with other suggestions made in and through PriusChat.
     
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  4. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    This is exactly the kind of innovations we need more of. The whole notion of technological advancement for cars needs to be re-thought in light of people with great ideas like this.

    Yet asking Toyota to tinker with their accelerator pedal will probably make their hair stand on end in fear... I mean if there's one subject Toyota doesn't want to talk about, it's their accelerator pedal...:(
     
  5. WE0H

    WE0H Senior Member

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    Sounds like an interesting idea. But, there will be some that will complain of a sore foot or ankle from pushing the go pedal so hard :( If it were an option all by itself, hmmm that could be neat :)

    Mike
     
  6. rokibler

    rokibler Member

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    Perhaps rather than tactile feedback, it could be audible. Like a ratchet sound as you advance the throttle position from the EV region to ICE, then when you leave ECO region to PWR.
     
  7. briank101

    briank101 Member

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    So about 4 weeks ago, after a bit of searching for ideas on this, I placed one of those "half sphere" hollow soft door stops that you can get in a hardware store see this Door Stop , in the foot well behind the accelerator, and I must say it's exceeding my expectations.

    When the gas pedal is about 1 inch away from full travel one can easily feel the increase in foot force. The point this occurs equates to middle of the PWR region in the HSI, when in ECO mode, and equates to just to the right hand side of the PWR region when in Normal mode, areas where acceleration is still fairly efficient in terms of BSFC (within about 5% of optimum) along with the benefit of keeping up with most traffic. Just what I wanted. Note: this half sphere door stop is about 1.25 inches thick and there is the nice noticeable step up in foot pressure but not so excessive that one cannot easily compress the door stop when one may require fast acceleration in an emergency.

    Believe it or not I did not have to attach this , I just placed it behind the gas pedal about a month ago at about a 30 degree angle on the floor and it has stayed put ever since.

    So safety-wise I don't have to look at the HSI when accelerating from a stop, or when I need to get up to speed after slowing down. So I feel this is one step closer to making high mpg driving easy. My next endeavor is to make a step increase at the CHG/EV border and just to the right of the EV/"engine on" border on the HSI. Right now I have a few different springs I am working with to set at least one more tactile response points, so I can get closer to not having to look at the HSI at all. Actually my wife (who doesn't want to hypermile) may end up hypermiling without trying. It would also be nice to have a tactile response point on the brake at the point of maximum re-gen. Any ideas welcome.
     
  8. briank101

    briank101 Member

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    The door stop solution mentioned is still producing dividends, but being one to never turn down an opportunity on further improvement and trying to eliminate springs or any physical attachments to the "go" pedal for safety amongst other reasons, I'm now thinking about strategies to ease the comfort of reaching and maintaining any given gas pedal position. So the thought is that rather than having one's foot only pivot about one's heel at the lower back of one's foot which is controlled by both the calf muscles (increase "go" pedal) and the tibialis anterior muscle (decrease "go" pedal), that one can instead also pivot about the right under side of the foot, which for most people may yield better finesse and more comfortable to sustain for longer periods. This could be accomplished by mounting an 8 inch high by 1/2 inch wide rest plate structure to the right of the go pedal parallel to the right edge of one's shoe. As it would only protrude a 1/2 inch out from the right of the foot well, it wouldn't likely interfere with other drivers of the car that may not see its benefits (high-heel wearers). Key criteria to be met include, the optimum mounting location. Should I progress with this, I will be sure to update here. One of my thoughts with this is that extremely fine control could be achieved when resting the right of the foot on this "lip plate" by moving the right knee left and right, and maybe reducing the amount of time one has to look at the HSI due to improved muscle memory potential (that is, moving 2 inches left with the knee, may equate to 1/8 of the HSI travel to the right, for example)
     
  9. tankyuong

    tankyuong Senior Member

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    how about an electric shock when entering power mode:)
     
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  10. GreenJuice

    GreenJuice Active Member

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    Do you monitor SoC for your hypermiling? I think there could be some variation in gas pedal position to achieve the same HSI location depending on the state of charge of the hybrid battery.

    The European model of the Gen 3 has the HSI projected over the road ahead using a head up display. This can go a long way avoiding the need for tactile feedback from the gas pedal.
     
  11. briank101

    briank101 Member

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    The HUD not in US cars, would be great, but I'm sure if one can eliminate watching the HSI almost completely, HUD or not, that is an improvement. Good point about HSI position not being an exact correlation of pedal position which does vary with speed, which can also be seen all the time when one accelerates from a stop. Not sure about SoC effect on HSI position for a given pedal depression. Also the power output at a given HSI position varies with speed, so 3/4 HSI at 30 mph has less kW/hp than 3/4 HSI at 60 mph, if I understand hobbit's findings correctly (BSFC moves right also with speed). Again in a perfect world we could have, say 4 customizable buttons controlling specific gas pedal/HSI positions, which could be customized for example, as "PWR right", "no-regen Glide", "5/8 efficient acceleration/cruise", and "7/8 efficient acceleration/cruise" with brake override for any of these settings, though in this sue happy world, Toyota would be reluctant. I don't think even cruise control, if it was a brand new concept, could be introduced in today's world.

    Does anyone know if the Prius Gen III has had any Disabled driver conversions where the driver uses a hand operated throttle/brake?
     
  12. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Senior Member

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    I certainly hope this idea doesn't catch on. I don't want an accelerator pedal that is sticky or feels like it is. I think if I pay attention and use the HSI I don't need tactile or audible feedback.

    HUD is a great idea, that we should have.
     
  13. briank101

    briank101 Member

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    Just to be clear my objective with this is to achieve efficiency while maximizing safety. In my opinion having to glance at the HSI HUD or not, lowers my safety and distracts me.

    I concur "I don't want an accelerator pedal that is sticky or feels like it is." I think, cruise control can be dangerous, as it's providing motive power while nothing is "pushed" The mode buttons I suggest above would only give motive force only while depressed and the instant they are released, no motive power is provided, a "dead man's pedal" if you will.