"Dogs" of car sales

Critiquing an article that was not very well-researched by its author isn't lacking in niceness.

Most of the posters responding to the article were mature enough to critique the article and not make it personal.

 

We have seen over a decade of hybrid-skeptics who are more than willing to inflate the meaning of sales shifts. It is one reason why I track and post the last four months of all hybrid, EV, CNG, and diesel sales. It provides perspective, a fact based view of reality.

We've seen a stream of folks over the years who 'bring the bad news' about the Prius to PriusChat. Often it sounds as if they want our "informed decision" to stop being Prius owners. Visiting Prius-skeptics are poking an old wound. This only makes some of us more sensitive to the next, clumsy attempt to 'help us'.

I am not some Prius Polyanna. I have issues with the absence of a "check engine" light when the last of the gas is gone; the crude cruise control that ignores "PWR", "normal" and "ECO" modes, and; pricing accident avoidance to limit sales after buying $8000 of 'eye-candy.' When someone reported the "brake pause" problem three years ago, I helped research and confirm the fix. I hang out in the 2001-03 Prius forum and lend-a-hand with what we know about keeping them running. I know the Prius "dark side" but none of that is in this article about Prius sales.

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3
0	[tr][th]Mar 2012[th]Mar 2013[th]% change[th]description
1	[tr][td2]27	800[td2]22	000[td2]-21%[td]total Prius sales
2	[tr][td2]48	200[td2]46	327[td2]-4%[td]total hybrids
3	[tr][td2]11	642[td2]11	163[td2]-4%[td]total clean diesels
4	[tr][td2]5	047[td2]3	653[td2]-28%[td]total Jetta TDI
5	[tr][td2]906[td2]572[td2]-37%[td]total Honda civic hybrids

Source: Dashboard reports

So what is the "informed decision" Prius owners supposed to make from the "Market Watch" article?

We know from the total sales picture that Ford CMAX and Fusion have increased market share in raw numbers about the same as the Prius decrease. We know because we read the posts of those who bought them and came back to complain (or find the magic Prius Fairy Dust that gives high MPG.) We also read the public crucifixion Ford is going through because theirs are not 47 MPG vehicles. But the "Market Watch" article is lacking this detail.

Now if I were in the market to buy our next car, I would take the "Market Watch" article as suggesting it is a Prius-buyer's market. Was that the intent? Overstocked Prius, a great time to buy one.

So call your Dad and thank him for the article. Tell him it says Prius prices must be lower now and you're going to buy one while the prices are so good. No doubt he will be impressed with your insightful shopping decision. <GRINS>

Bob Wilson

 

Interesting. Article mentions all new Malibu sales down 22% and I think I know why...

The 'all new' Malibu is pretty terrible. Sitting in it last weekend, it's glaringly obvoius the center stack is very dated and bland. Seriously, it looks like crap compared to the car I always brag about, the new Accord.

It gets worse. Setting the driver's seat for me, behind it, legroom was dismal, seriously, like maybe as much as a Civic. Camry and Accord have good legroom even behind a tall driver, Fusion not as much.

Still gets worse for Malibubu - I know driver's seats. The headrest was certified screwed up. That thing was jutting into back of my head, even with seatback reclined. You could see the headrest forward of top of seatback. Likely designed by some rookie or n'erdowell. And it could not be adjusted back, just up, down.

Did I mention there was no interior latch to open the stupid trunk? The salesman would have had to grab the key to electronically open it. Stooooopid. Wrong design direction.

-----------------------
Most of you already know my opinion that the 3rd gen needs work. Of course it's great on gas, practical, blah, blah, but mostly, the interior is unfinished business and not as good as it ought to be to this date.

It is comical to have a 1 1/2" block of dense foam on my driver's door armrest. It is completely unusable (for me) in stock form. *IF* somehow it was declared I could not put any kind of pad on that armrest, I would sell the car private party immediately. There's more to it and I probably ought to have waited longer to get a Prius or hybrid. I am driving about 12k miles a year.

How many customers are sitting in 3rd gen and feeling it's 'not quite right'? I wager quite a few.

This is a $60,000 car, but I sat in a loaded Acura RLX the other day ... good gravy ... THAT is a fine car, above reproach.

Last comment, Piercey's sales mgr. mentioned hybrid sales go up and down with gas prices.

 

Hummm,

Sometimes a loss of sales leads to 'opening the ears' of engineers and managers who with good sales, are deaf to owner suggestions:

Add to that the space consumed by the non-structural, flying bridge. Take out the flying bridge and the interior space, the passenger space increases substantially.

Take the material from the flying bridge and add sound dampening to further make the cabin quiet and insulated from road noise.

Relocate the outside mirrors so they are inside the car along the top of the windshield so we can see the blind-spots that are barely covered. Allow either adjusting to look along side or cross-car viewing (useful if small, anxious people are in the back seat area.)

Put electric heating traces on the driver and passenger glass so in winter weather we can clear them and keep them clear. Also embed the heating traces inside the glass so they won't fail from a scratch that so often happens.

Make the touch buttons more unique in tactile form. Someone wearing the white, thin gloves popular with Japanese workers, should be able to identify the control by shape through thin gloves, alone.

When in "ECO" mode, stop the 'regenerative drag' until the speed increases above that when the accelerator was released. Make it a graduated increase that kicks in over a 5 mph range.

Give us OBD channel on the radio . . . a special channel that reports vehicle error codes and includes engine rpm.

Provide a movable panel above the speedometer so anyone can have a 'heads up' speed display. Better still, have a mirrored surface so it can be the speedometer display.

Relocate the shifter to the front of the center arm-rest or optionally, to either left or right door where it is easily reached. Provide tactile feedback so no one need ever look to determine the gear position.

Shift the brake pedal away from the accelerator. Make it nearly impossible to press both accelerator and brake without distinctly knowing which is being pressed.

Provide a tactile feedback when the accelerator is fully depressed. Perhaps a 'vibrating puck' whose rate and amplitude is proportional to the engine power output. Perhaps a 'rocking' pivot that causes the top or bottom to rock at an angle.

This is my short list,
Bob Wilson

 

I want to mention a couple of items. First, I happen to have purchased a new 2008 Malibu Hybrid and all I could think of after the new wore off {about a week} was, "Why didn't I buy a Prius?" I put up with it as long as I could stand and sold it at quite a loss so I could move on.

If I could make a couple of minor changes to my 2010 Prius II, I would have factory tinted glass and a little pull-out extension on the sun visors so I could drive to and from work more comfortably. Like Bob said on his wish list, I'd add some sound proofing so that when I go up a fairly steep incline, I wouldn't hear the droning of the engine nearly so much.

That said, I find it a comfortable car and it took exactly one trip to the gas pump to get used to the fuel economy.

 

FWIW, the article which started this thread listed the Lincoln MKZ as having fallen in sales -- with the conclusion that it was a dog. Not so. The car has pretty thoroughly re-done, but deliveries to dealers were few because there were quality concerns. MKZs built before the "fix on the line" were held until repaired. The Lincoln dealer I recently stopped at has tremendous interest but few cars. Doesn't exactly fit the definition of "a dog".

 

I'm seriously doubting that the Prius outsold the Honda Civic by over a factor of 10. Those numbers are very fishy.

 

Honda Civic hybrid but these numbers have been going down since the Honda Insight (II) showed up.

Bob Wilson

 

Incorrect.

Fishy numbers are fishy.

 

Why fishy?

See New Accord Continues to Drive Honda Sales in March; Big Acura Sales Jump Fueled by Record-Setting RDX and All-New RLX - Honda.com and Toyota | March 2013 Sales Chart. In March 2013, 572 HCHs were sold in the US vs. 22,140 Prius family members.

Prius sales decimating Honda hybrid sales has been going on for a long time.

I can't speak for the specific car, but some GM cars have don't have a lever you pull on the driver's side to open the trunk. Some of them have a button inside the glove box area.

Looking at the manual, my mom's NAH has a switch/button you pull (electrical) on the driver's side but there's a cancel switch inside the glove box area that disables that and opening the trunk via the key fob.

 

Here is my source:
Hybrid Market Dashboard - HybridCars.com

Do you have another source we should be using instead?

Bob Wilson

 

I think the fishy, was two civics. I'm guessing one is civic hybrid and the other on your list is civic natural gas. The camry, fusion, sonata, optima hybrid sales really eat into the the civic hybridsales.

 

Yep. March 2013 Dashboard - HybridCars.com lists 572 HCHs and 167 CNG Civics. I've seen a few of the latter running around here in CA.

 

Another datapoint for Honda Civic Hybrid sales:

Source: 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid no match for aging Toyota Prius in sales

 

I forgot about the Honda Civic CNG. I believe it remains the only model listed in that category.

I'll try to do something next month to make it clear.

Bob Wilson

 

And another data point re: HCH.... For all of 2012, per Honda Media Newsroom - Headlines - All-New Accord and Civic Drive Sharp Honda Monthly and Annual Sales Gains; ILX and RDX Fuel Acura Jump; American Honda Posts Best Annual Sales Result Since 2008, 7156 HCHs were sold in all of the US for 2012.

From http://www.cncda.org/secure/GetFile.aspx?ID=2444 (comes from California New Car Dealers Association), over 60K members of the Prius family were registered in the state of CA in 2012.