Hybrid battery replacement

2001-2003 models are inferior to 2004+ models.

You can replace the battery pack cells in a GenI (2001-2003) with cells from a GenII (2004-2009) or GenIII (2010-current) but you cannot do a direct swap. The number of modules and the pack voltage are different. The type of module is also different, but better.

So possible yes. But make sure it was done properly. Was a reinvolt pack, or did they just buy random cells off of ebay and clobber them together themselves?

 

ReInvolt is a company (one of many) that sells GenI packs with GenII modules. Because they are setup to do this, they have hundreds and hundreds of cells waiting for a new home. This is very important. If you pull 2 random cells they will be different. Their capacity will be different, their internal resistance will be different, they just aren't a good match. If you build a new pack with unmatched cells, you get an unmatched pack. The cells will internally fight constantly trying to balance themselves. They will heat up and waste power trying to make the other ones more like themselves but the fight never ends until they all die because they are just too different.

The Gen I traction battery uses 38 modules in the battery pack whereas the Gen II uses 28 modules. In order to build a Gen I battery using Gen II modules, you will need at least 2 Gen II batteries as donors. Then you'll need to find 19 matched module pairs (38 total modules) that are also voltage balanced within 0.3 volts. Those modules will then need to be installed in the Gen I pack and the pack placed back in the car.

If you buy 2 random GenII Prius packs, or just 38 modules off of eBay, you are almost guaranteeing failure because it will be almost impossible to select 38 matched modules out of 38 random modules or out of 56 random modules.

So you pay a company like ReInvolt to find 38 matched modules out of many many many modules.

 

Batteries do behave almost humanly in that regards.

On last piece of advice even though you didn't ask about, I would not consider purchasing a GenI unless you are a collector, a tinkerer, or enjoy driving unique vehicles with unique quirks. I would buy one, but I would not recommend anyone to buy one this late in the game.

Talking about the battery first, the cells used are inferior. If they are replaced properly with GenII, cells this risk is somewhat mitigated. But otherwise (or for other people who stumble upon this in the future) the ESR of the cells is substantially higher in GenI than GenII. The busbar's used inside the battery use dissimilar metals and can (and will) corrode causing greater unbalanced and pre-mature battery failure. A couple hours of time and some cleaning solvents, bristle brushes, and lab power supply balancing for a tinkerer, a replacement pack and labour for a dealership repair ($2K-$3K).

The transaxle itself on the earlier GenI's is more prone to self mutilation where the copper just sheds off of the MG windings. This is bad news and requires a transaxle replacement. Junkyard finds for $300, dealership new buys for $2K. A days worth of labour to install either yourself or a dealer ($1K).

The weaker HV system in the GenI makes it unfavourable to drive in situations where it will get very hot, like mountain driving. The dreaded "turtle" will appear on the dash board to tell you that you are in limp-along mode.

The cool whiz-bang features like SKS and push button start, the versatility of the hatch, and so on are also not available on the GenIs.

So if you have time to spare and a spare vehicle, it is really easy to maintain a GenI, but maintaining they do require at this point. In my view they were the Beta version. Alpha's being sold in Japan from 1997 to 2001. Great vehicles, but with quirks. If you want a reliable daily driver, or have never even changed your own oil, then I would reconsider the purchase of an 11 year old beta tester vehicle with 120,000 miles on it, whatever the price. If you don't know how to fix things yourself, you can expect 4 digit repair bills every time you bring it in to the dealership.

 

I'm no expert, but I have worked on and built a few electric vehicles. I have also designed my own EV power control system and so on. But I am not a battery expert, more of a power-systems focused electrical engineer.

Leaf is nice, but doesn't work for me. I'd go Tesla.

If you always drive less than 40% of 73 miles, which is 29.2miles, then it will work great for you for a long long time.

As to repairing the GenI Prii, it is a gamble. If you can get the whole car for $2K and drive it for 2 years before it explodes into huge repairs, that seems reasonable. I know you can buy a 2004 model for close to $4K to $5K in the midwest "I don't believe the liberal media" zones, because I unfortunately live in it. The closer you get to the coasts, the more expensive they are. However if you are not adverse to flying and driving, I would recommend using your money to buy a 2004+ Prius somewhere within the continental US. A $200 one way plane ticket to where the car is, and then drive it home. If you have a friend in the airline business the ticket is closer to $25 anywhere in the states.

If you limit your car search to your immediate geographic area, you are competing with other people that are more likely closer to want what you want. This is why dealers ship cars across the country all the time. A Prius in California is worth twice as much as a Prius in Colorado. But a battering-ram-of-death like a Ford F5-bagillion diesel raised and smoking with glass packs will fetch probably double in Colorado what you would get in California for it.

You can usually arrange to have the seller or dealership take the vehicle to an independent repair shop or dealership for a pre-sale check and email you the results. I didn't bother doing that with either of the 2 vehicles I have bought that way, but again I don't recommend that for everyone, just those that can afford to lose at that gamble.

 

40% to 80% is the happy area for batteries. With Lithium you can push it to 20% to 80% without too much ill effect but, 40% is still the happy low.

Nissan's pack is 24KWh. Usable is 21KWh. They allow you to use 87.5% of the pack. To get the longest life, you should restrict further. EPA number is 73 miles. So 83.4miles if you could run the pack from 0 to 100% lets say. 40% of that is about 33miles. So if you drive less than 33miles, great. If you push it further, life dies faster. And to get the full 87.5% of the usable pack, you have to force the charger to go to "100% charge" instead of 80%.

Great car, just make sure it fits. Especially in California with the heat. The Leaf is all passive cooling, no active or liquid cooling.

 

I had my battery go out in my 05 Prius and went through what everyone else went through. I googled it and then called the local dealership and after the sticker shock I called the local parts store and was right about to pull the trigger on that when I found a company that will do everything for you. The company I called was a legitimate one and I talked to one of the service guys. He directed me to someone who does it on the side for less. I know what some people might be thinking that was the place I messed up and they would be right.
I screened the guy on the phone and asked him a bunch of questions and especially about his warranty vs the others. He seemed nice on the phone and he did provide me with a warranty ( even if it was a generic sales receipt slip with very basic warranty info hand written in the description or parts area)
This was a huge mistake and horrible experience. below is one of the Better business complaints filed about him. Since he works for one company during the day, buys or at least deals with another company to get refurbished batteries and also runs his side business, it is hard to nail him down exactly and not tie in his associates even though they might be innocent of any of Alex Tishin's wrongdoings.

Summary. Alex Tishin a 1 man operation out of small private garage selling refurbished batteries on the side AKA HybridOnly/HybridPlus supplied me with two Bad prius Hybrid batteries, horrible customer service, and left me without a car for almost a month!. The 1st battery purchased 3/25/2015 failed completely in June. After 2 weeks of daily attempts to get service from him I had to call anybody that knew him and anyone I could find explaining my frustration and desire to get a hold of him and/or escalate my complaint and only then did that get his attention. I do not have a second car and being without one was very disruptive to my work and life. I asked Alex on the phone about what he was going to do about the battery and leaving me stranded. He said tough luck. Not only that but the replacement battery would not come with another warranty! I told him that this was wrong on multiple levels and I would report him. He became combative and said that he has great lawyers and to bring it on. I was finally able to get him to agree to honor what little warranty remained. This involved me driving 3 hours to pick up a questionable battery on 6/25/2016 and I SPECIFICALLY asked him if he was going to give me a good battery replacement or poor one, or pull some type of stunt which he replied he would not give me a bad one or turn me away. That was a lie. I had a feeling that he would try and pull some stunt, luckily I showed up with my wife and a video camera and he changed he tune slightly. He still refused to be on camera but after giving me the run around and making me jump through hoops I was finally able to get another (poor) battery that I had to pay someone else to install after a 3 hour return drive. Horrible experience. I should have bought the battery somewhere else and not went the cheap route. This could have all been avoided with better customer service and product. AVOID ALEX TISHIN at all costs!!

 

I had my battery go out in my 05 Prius and went through what everyone else went through. I googled it and then called the local dealership and after the sticker shock I called the local parts store and was right about to pull the trigger on that when I found a company that will do everything for you. The company I called was a legitimate one and I talked to one of the service guys. He directed me to someone who does it on the side for less. I know what some people might be thinking that was the place I messed up and they would be right.
I screened the guy on the phone and asked him a bunch of questions and especially about his warranty vs the others. He seemed nice on the phone and he did provide me with a warranty ( even if it was a generic sales receipt slip with very basic warranty info hand written in the description or parts area)
This was a huge mistake and horrible experience. below is one of the Better business complaints filed about him. Since he works for one company during the day, buys or at least deals with another company to get refurbished batteries and also runs his side business, it is hard to nail him down exactly and not tie in his associates even though they might be innocent of any of Alex Tishin's wrongdoings.

Summary. Alex Tishin a 1 man operation out of small private garage selling refurbished batteries on the side AKA HybridOnly/HybridPlus supplied me with two Bad prius Hybrid batteries, horrible customer service, and left me without a car for almost a month!. The 1st battery purchased 3/25/2015 failed completely in June. After 2 weeks of daily attempts to get service from him I had to call anybody that knew him and anyone I could find explaining my frustration and desire to get a hold of him and/or escalate my complaint and only then did that get his attention. I do not have a second car and being without one was very disruptive to my work and life. I asked Alex on the phone about what he was going to do about the battery and leaving me stranded. He said tough luck. Not only that but the replacement battery would not come with another warranty! I told him that this was wrong on multiple levels and I would report him. He became combative and said that he has great lawyers and to bring it on. I was finally able to get him to agree to honor what little warranty remained. This involved me driving 3 hours to pick up a questionable battery on 6/25/2016 and I SPECIFICALLY asked him if he was going to give me a good battery replacement or poor one, or pull some type of stunt which he replied he would not give me a bad one or turn me away. That was a lie. I had a feeling that he would try and pull some stunt, luckily I showed up with my wife and a video camera and he changed he tune slightly. He still refused to be on camera but after giving me the run around and making me jump through hoops I was finally able to get another (poor) battery that I had to pay someone else to install after a 3 hour return drive. Horrible experience. I should have bought the battery somewhere else and not went the cheap route. This could have all been avoided with better customer service and product. AVOID ALEX TISHIN at all costs!!

 

welcome! and thanks for the heads up.

 

Welcome anytime. I wish I would have known before I got it from him. The little bit of money I saved in the beginning has been swallowed up with the large amount of money that I have lost because of this guy. I should have just went the better route from the get go.
Hindsight 20/20 right?

 

unfortunately, it's all too common a story on these boards. all the best!

 

Thanks