Toyota & Ford end hybrid truck effort

That's too bad.
Ford Splits With Toyota, Plans Own Truck Hybrid System - Bloomberg

It sounds like they did not work and play well together, which is sad. We could have used a good hybrid rwd and 4wd system before the end of the decade.

 

Like our resident GM hater... "A little bit too late... for Toyota." More hype than results outside their Prius.

 

What bmw said, and they were one of the partners, that it was too expensive. I would say the hybrid system in toyota's 4wd Lexus LSh, also appears too expensive, or at least Lexus is pricing it as such. It was hoped that toyota and ford would come up with something that cost less than 2-mode and at the same time saved more gas.

 

From an efficiency/power point of view a turbo -6 would definitely be better.
Compare Side-by-Side
EPA says you save about $2000 in 5 years on the chevy hybrid versus the ford turbo 6. If you can sell it for $6000 more you might get some market share, but GM did not come close to offering it at that price. You had to buy it with certain options and starting at a much higher price.

2009 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra Hybrid - First Drive Review - Car Reviews - Car and Driver

It sounds like its kept all the costs of the regular transmission then adds 2motor hsd, but for a higher torque application, and low volume. That is going to cost money as bmw said when it dropped the system.

 

Not necessarily. They're competitors. So they'd work together to do basic research until one or both of the companies reach a point where they think they can go it alone.

 

Well, this doesn't really hurt my feelings too much. I would love a reasonably priced hybrid pickup, but I don't want something built on a POS F*rd chassis.

Now the GM Hybrid setup... They just need to put that in a 2500HD series pickup and I'll be considering a purchase.

 

Many, many truck drivers are the type of people who think:

A. Hybrids are for big-government-loving-pot-smoking-hippies.
B. Hybrid batteries die after 3 years and cost $10,000 to replace.
C. Spending less than $100 to fill up a passenger vehicle is unnatural.

Anyone remember the Ford Ranger EV's? They were sold only to fleets and their small weight helped the systems worked. Toyota/Ford must each start with compact pickups as they started with compact cars. Don't jump right into making a hybrid F-150 or Tundra -- that's just stupid.

 

To me this reads like they decided to pursue different architectures. There is more than one way to make a hybrid pickup.

Bob Wilson

 

They will simply have to market them with some word other than "hybrid".
I agree "hybrid" produces knee-jerk reaction in the truck crowd, but I'm not sure about (C).
I'm pretty sure most truck drivers would love to see improved city mpg, with some sort of regen braking setup.

Speaking of which........is Ford serious about putting "hydraulic hybrid system" into production?

 

If KERS is used, would those truck drivers think it is some feminine products since they know only NASCAR and not F1?

 

It is my understanding that when it comes to maximizing regen:
- KERS is best for light vehicles capable of braking from a high speed (Porsche 911, F1 cars, etc.)
- Hydraulic Hybrids are best suited for heavy vehicles braking at relatively lower speeds.....SUVs, trucks, etc.
- Standard battery hybrids are good for all other class of vehicles, including the above two (though bit pricier)

 

The tow rating is only 6000lbs. Yeah, only, when the base V6 can pull 5400 and the largest V8 can do 9100. Without being forced into a crew cab. The city mpg of the hybrid was great, but for those looking for a work truck, it wasn't enough to move them from a far cheaper ride that could actually do more work.

The HSD has the same problem with towing. I know people have used their Prius for towing, but there is a reason Toyota doesn't rate it for towing. That reason could vary well be a CYA legal BS one, but it's there whatever it is, and it will keep the HSD out of a truck.

 

The reason many of liked the joint venture is because developing this technology is risky and expensive. It is likely it will cost in the range of $2B, and both Toyota and Ford need the technology to meet the 2025 cafe standards. Ford and Toyota seemed like a good partnership to invest in this, with Toyota being the leader in hybrids, although not doing well with rwd hybrids, and ford being the leader in profitable full size pickup trucks. If they produced a good working system it would help ford reduce costs, and toyota to gain market share in the highly profitable truck market.

Something must have gone wrong since the CEOs met in 2011 and decided to work on the problem together. Even with the partnership, Ford was free to experiment with hydraulics. Ford seems to be hiring a large number of new workers to work on hybrids, but they all still need to be trained. That is likely to further delay ford having hybrid trucks. I have no idea what toyota's timetable is now.

 

You may THINK it's too expensive, but I'm loosing track of all the HyHi's and RX hybrids around So Cal.

 

Maybe it was hard to get the towing performance and so on that they needed. The Ram EcoDiesel can tow way more than the 2-mode trucks. It may be tough to get enough battery capacity to ensure good performance with a heavily loaded truck going up long grades. For city commuters who don't do much hauling with their trucks, the hybrid would probably work well.

 

Still not sure why no automaker has designed hybrid system to take advantage of massive low-end torque. It seems it is the limitations of the particular system (2-mode, HSD) rather than battery capacity.
Would be interesting to know if Voltec scaled up with beefier motor would work well in a truck.
Given that ICE efficiency of Volt is similar to Cruze, we could expect same performance in a truck: no gasoline for 1st x miles, with decent mpg thereafter.
100% torque at 0 rpm should allow it to outperform any diesel as far as towing is concerned.
Of course, in order for it to succeed in the marketplace, the word "hybrid" should not be found anywhere in the name.

Perhaps noting the similarities to locomotives and submarines would help with the truck crowd....