Charging infrastructure not ready

Actually, this is a myth. Using real numbers for your situation (Your choice of EV, your electric rates, what percentage of your electric bill would be for the EV, etc.), crunch some numbers.....and you may be thinking about buying an electric car instead of claiming the need for more power plants.

 

Like always, EV promoters don't talk about the negatives of EV's.

- higher initial cost
- limited battery life
- limited battery capacity

For someone who don't drive a lot, he/she is better off with a compact gas car. Even a standard Prius is not a good fit.

 

When Mike said worth more, he was not speaking in $$$$, interesting that you did not catch that.

 

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Replace EV with. ALL Auto dealers.

 

My first hand experience buying a 2001, 2007, and 2010 Prius were quite different. There was quite a waiting list for the 2001 to 2003 versions simply because Toyota kept the production rate low till the 2004 model came out. I had to wait for the 2001 and 2007 vehicles for quite some time. Only in the last several years can one buy a Prius without waiting. They may not have attracted a lot of people, but the early Prius attracted more buyers than cars built. I won't disagree with the 2001 being ugly, but then so is a $100 bill. The value is quite different than the beauty. Note that my 2001 is still going strong, so the payback on it is impressive to me. Also, I certainly took advantage of the 2001 tax credit and everyone that had an early Prius was notified, so I'm not sure where the idea arose that only a few took advantage of it.

Well, for me, if money was not an issue, then Tesla would probably be the vehicle of choice. However, back to your point. What you left out was the driver's recharge needs. If the PiP is a daily 10 mile commute with charging stations at home and work, then a whole lot of payback scenarios would show a viable return. If the commute was 40 miles one way with only home charging possible, then the economics would be much harder.

 

Deja Vu. I'm back in 2001 when I was told that buying a 2001 Prius had the following fatal shortcomings:

- higher initial cost
- limited battery life
- limited battery capacity

 

Are you saying Mike changed the topic on me? We were talking about PAYBACK. Interesting that you did not catch that.

 

Amazing, after all these years, things haven't changed.

 

Anothersubject, He said, hopefully I am quoting him correctly, he views payback in terms of MPG, which is exactly the same terms I think in. There are of course numerous other satisfactions with the PIP or the Hybrid, both tangible and intangible. You are discussing a lost cause by looking at only cost and payback. END OF DISCUSSION. AndyPrius 1

 

So obviously money is an issue. More people are buying the Prius than PiP or Tesla. If you want to use short drives to justify an PiP, I got news for you. If someone really only drive 20 miles a day, he/she is better off just buying a compact gas car. It's $6000 to $7000 cheaper than the PiP and there are more selections out there for gas cars.

 

For some reason, when I bought my 2001 Prius a great many individuals asked how I could justify it using a spreadsheet. Yet every single one of these folks were driving a huge or expensive vehicle costing far more than the 2001.

For some strange reason, buying an expensive vehicle is "choice" and buying a fuel saving vehicle is "unjustified". The extreme reliability of a Prius (and most EVs), the low pollution (same for EVs), the quite ride (same for EVs), and high torque at low speed (same for EVs) and every other advantage all seem to be inconsequential. The idea that only (flawed) spreadsheet calculations should apply to everyone really infects the Prius and EV market.

 

For me, I never saw Prius as a competitor of big cars like SUV's and Van. Prius is competing with other compact cars of similar size. I've encountered many people who switched from big cars to Prius failed to consider the alternative which is a compact gas car. I have co-workers who dumped their SUV's and got a Prius thinking they would save a lot of money. However, they only drive 7 miles to work, they would have saved more money if they purchased a compact gas car. With a compact gas car, they don't have to worry about the battery that may die in 10 years.

You said "low pollution". It's true that the Prius is lower pollution per mile than other cars. But if you compare specific drivers, a Prius driver could be more polluting than another driver with a compact gas car. For example, a Prius driver that drives 40 miles to work is more polluting than a compact gas car driver that drive only 7 miles to work. The bottom line is driving a Prius isn't going to save the world. I know many Prius drivers who take cruises and some even take 2 a year. They also live in big single homes that consume a lot of energy. They feel proud about polluting less with their Prius but turn around polluting much more with their cruises. Of course, no one talks about those polluting ships, most people just complain about the SUV's.

 

Instead, they have to worry about belts, fluids, and a transmission... none of which are in a Prius.

Brakes wear out faster too. Prius starts much easier in the winter as well.

As for your fixation on money, notice which has better resale value.

 

They only drive 7 miles to work. So I doubt those costs you mentioned would be too great. With gas cars, they could take it to a local mechanic to get things fixed. Local guys are much better and cheaper than Toyota dealers' labor rate.

 

Would they take the cruises, or live in the big homes anyway?
If yes, they are saving energy over what they would have been doing without the Prius.
I personally hate travel, especially by ship or plane for exactly the reason you mention.
But if someone is going to drive 40 miles a day in a Prius, 2 cruises and an airplane trip they will use X amount of energy.
That same person driving 40 miles a day to work in a less efficient compact car, 2 cruises and an airplane trip, they will use more than X amount of energy.

Prius wins on energy use in this case. You have to compare different behaviors in order to say the less energy efficient car uses less energy.

 

No. Payback includes higher resale value.

Mike

 

. Please compare apples to apples. A horse and buggy rig pollutes much less than a ICE. So we should all drive Horse and carriages, cheaper, less complicated requires no fuel except hay, horse provides companionship, warmth, is animate. Can use waste product in garden, requires no technical expertise and finally assures a leisurely pace free from modern day stresses. I don't understand why you own a Prius.

 

People left the waste all over the streets AFAIK.

Mike

 

I responded to someone who made a claim that Prius is less polluting than other cars. I don't think I want to start a different debate with you from my response to another conversation. What you drive don't make you green. That's the point I was trying to make. How green you are is based on carbon foot print.