Would the Prius C work for me?

I don't drive a trial-size Prius, but I have 52,ooo miles in the G3, which probably has a similar(ly useless) TC system.
I've also had the pleasure of driving Priuses on unimproved roads and I've been to IA during the winter.
I'm thinking that you're going to have more trouble driving the C-type on semi-improved roads than you are with the TC system---provided that you're a reasonably competent driver.
Gravel---even compacted gravel that's been sleeted on and frozen over, will provide more traction than concrete or asphalt that's been sleeted on and frozen over. This obviously is because gravel has a more crenelated (rough) surface to start out with.
The problem that you ARE going to have is with the Prius' diminutive ground clearance....and its relative fragility compared to most of the other vehicles that you see driving on gravel roads.
I've bottomed my G3 out on roads that all of the other cars in out fleet have no trouble traversing, and if the C-type has the same panels underneath the car as 'my' G3 does, you can add a semi-occasional visual inspection to the undercarriage to your maintenance repertoire.
This shouldn't be a tie-breaker for you.
If your friends and neighbors have small econo-boxes in their driveways, then you'll be fine with the ground clearance issue, and remember when I said that I've been to IA during the winter months?
Well...
I've been to Japan during the winter as well.
They have snow and ice too.

I wouldn't sweat the TC thing...and if you're worried about the terrain, then I'd strongly recommend either renting a Prius or taking the C out for a LOOOOOOOOONG test drive (like your normal routes) before you pull the trigger.

Good Luck!
Let us know how it shakes out!

 

If an Aveo works in those driving conditions and you have a backup Suburban, the C should be fine. From what I can tell, the C has 5.5 in. of ground clearance, and the Aveo has a bit over 7, so there is a little bit of a difference.

There is a way to disable the traction control:
Disable Traction Control for winter situations? | PriusChat

 

It seems that most people recommend snow tires for the winter, especially for a prius. I know I will be planning on buying some for my c.

 

Hey Mo.

I live over here in Omaha and ran the C last year in the snow with the traction control turned off. It works well. I only drove in the city areas and nver got out on any gravel. I grew up in the country and have a LOT of gravel road miles and I don't think the C would have any trouble until snow got deep and there was slick ice under it. Awesome snow tires are still a must-have. Maybe even a sand bag or two in the passenger footwell for the worst weather.

The C won't beat deep snow and ice like my F-250 SD, but for a small car it does real well. I was impressed. With traction control disabled, it just chugged right through the snow and up the slick hills. With the traction control on, it was impossible to to even get up my tiny little hill.

Regarding snow in Japan, does anyone know if the home market vehicles also have the same traction control programming? Do they have the same laws mandating that there be no wheel slippage?

 

I would (and do) share some of your concerns- I live in the Santa Cruz mountains, and there are lots of curves, up and down hills, as well as deep eroded ruts in the turnouts where the SUVs and other speed demons expect me to pull over at their whim (forget it if the ditch is deeper than my tires!). There is a lot of gravel and I worry a little in the winter rains as well, and I don't know that I would go there with snow. The regular pruis sounds like a better choice for you, I think.

 

I'm confused. Why would disabling something like "traction control" improve winter driving performance?

 

Gen 1 owner chiming in here. I don't have a c or the service manuals for a c so I can't answer with complete certainty here, but anybody who has the manuals handy probably can.

My understanding is that a lot of the "traction control will cut all your power if any wheel spins" concern is left over from my car, the 2001-2003 Gen 1. My car doesn't really have what would normally be called traction control, but more just a rule in the computer to prevent MG1 over-revving. Because of the gear ratios, if a wheel gets spinning, MG1 could quickly rev to such RPMs that it could fling its rotor apart. The protective rule doesn't do anything clever for traction like selectively brake wheels; it just backs the power off in a hurry to keep MG1 intact. So that's the origin of this concern; in my generation of Prius it's really true. (But for a little perspective, even in my car where the issue is real, it was a problem for me exactly one time in five Indiana winters so far.)

My understanding is that later model Prii have actual traction control, which can do useful things like selectively applying some brakes to only the spinning wheels to be sure traction goes where it's needed. That's more than the human driver has ability to do, so I don't think I'd be one to go around disabling it all the time on principle. I would probably let it do its thing unless I found specific road or weather conditions where its control strategy wasn't working. It's still there partly to protect MG1, but the difference compared to my generation is that now when it protects MG1 it does so in a way that really does help traction and keep you on course.

I've generally found that I've only on a very few occasions had any problem with breaking traction in my Prius, because it's so easy to give just the right amount of go pedal and no more, and MG2 doesn't really have a minimum torque value; you can feather it up from zero just as slowly or gently as you like, something you're not guaranteed to be able to do in conventional cars. My experience so far has been that the car goes pretty well in snow and mud,
more than balancing that one time when the 'MG1 protector' annoyed me. And that's my car, whose "traction
control" really is nothing more than MG1 protection. A later-model Prius should do even better with its real traction control.

-Chap

 

Always happy to help.

On how cool it is to be able to apply exactly the torque you need and no more, you might like my very first story of a mud experience when I'd only had the car a couple months.

-Chap

 

While it may apply torque where there is traction, if there is no traction you will still be stationary.


Traction control is is a mixed bag. Primarily it keeps the wheels from spinning. Good or bad, this is what it does. If there's any traction to be had it will allow the tires to spin to that amount and no more. In a low-traction situation, normal cars and their spinning wheels will dig down to traction and move forward. The same situation will simply stop the tires on the C when they begin to slip. No traction, no spinning, no forward movement. Period.

The next step up from that is standard operation with snow tires. They have more traction and will move forward when summer tires begin to slip and come to a stop. Still, when they begin to slip in, say, trying to dig down to deeper snow in an intersection, tire spin will stop and forward motion will cease. Repeating the gas pedal down motion may cycle the system enough to get some traction and get some momentum going, but it isn't guaranteed.

The next step up from standard operation with snow tires is snow tires and a turned off traction control (TC). When you turn off TC the upper screen will show MAINTENACE MODE and all the cute little screens will not be available. At this point you will have all the spinning tires you want. With that comes the responsibility to not kill your drive train. None of that old-timey spin-your-wheels-at-150mph-and-see-what-happens stuff. Simply pressing the gas pedal down without getting carried away will allow your front wheels to turn and find traction. You will create forward momentum and eventually your ground speed and tire speed will meet and you will be on your way to where you were going. Again, no mashing the gas to whatever end it provides. Press the gas to get the tires turning and pay attention to your tire speed and ground speed.

To illusgrate traction control, I took the C out on the first little slush snow we had last winter. As I got to the bottom of the hill I slammed on the brakes and slid a few feet and stopped. There was a little wedge of shush/ice built up ahead of the tires. Facing down hill, the car would not drive over it. Not enough traction to even get out of that little mess. Contrasting that, with TC off and with awesome snow tires, uphill and through intersections with built-up snow was a breeze. I pressed the gas a bit and the tires would spin and dig and find traction and move move right through the mess.

 

It's interesting to see how someone else can give a description so different, even at the level of what seem like direct physical observations. That description's very different from how even my Gen 1 behaves, and though I don't have a c to test, it's had a dozen more years to refine the traction control and I'd be really surprised if its algorithms ended up worse than in my 2001.

In my Gen 1 I have never needed to repeat the gas pedal down motion to "cycle the system". As long as I just keep the pedal held to the same position, the system keeps trying to drive. If the traction is really nonexistent it will just alternately apply torque, spin, and back off at a repeating rate of roughly 1 Hz. I've been in that situation with it, once.

My car doesn't coordinate traction control with the brake system, so its only response to slipping is to cut back drivetrain power. If I'm not mistaken, mine is the only Prius generation that's true of. Show me if I'm wrong, but every generation since mine has traction control that can do per-wheel braking. The New Car Features manuals for the 2nd gen, 3rd gen, and c would settle the question ... is there anyone reading this thread who got the manuals for the car, or has a techinfo subscription, and could look it up?

It's a pretty rare situation to have exactly equal traction or lack thereof at both driving wheels. More often one wheel will be on a worse patch than the other. A plain differential unhelpfully will allow all power to go to the wheel that's slipping. Viscous limited-slip differentials were an old approximate solution to that problem, but in a modern car with a computer, wheel sensors, and ABS, it's just as easy to respond in real time and add brake resistance on the spinning wheel, just enough to force the differential to deliver some of the power where it does some good. As the driver's only brake control is one pedal, this per-wheel control is something only the computer can do.

Uphill and through intersections with built-up snow has never been a problem for my Gen 1, with decent all-season M+S tires and without disabling TC or anything else. During a winter storm this past season that the city couldn't keep up with, I drove a friend home who normally drives a 4WD SUV and who seemed convinced we'd end up in a ditch. We did see some spinouts and slideoffs happen, particularly as we went up the hill, but as far as I could tell it was because those drivers weren't careful with the go pedal, and let themselves break traction. We just drove up the hill at a steady moderate speed and under control. It was almost disappointing that the drive wasn't more dramatic.

-Chap

 

The traction in the C kills all momentum... turning it off is excellent in pure ice conditions.