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Here You Go Guys - Enjoy Hybrid "Debate" in the UK

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Bonefish Blues, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Not at all.

    Originally it got a bad name because all the Hollywood celebs made out they were 'green' by driving one but then negating any benefit by having a fleet of limos falling behind, having massive houses etc. We also have a strong diesel lobby in Europe (think Germany and France) and they didn't like the competition. It also became popular in America and was thus ridiculed. They get free road tax which petrol heads hate as their Nissan Skyline costs £300 per year etc. Then finally Jeremy Clarkson hates it and thus all 'petrol heads' must agree with him.

    The Prius is seem as a statement car driven by weird beards, though hybrids are becoming popular. People like the idea of hybrids, but not the statement they make.

    Things are changing now that Mercedes, Porsche, VW etc are now releasing hybrids over here.
     
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  2. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Oh and the gen2 looks weird!
    (It does. No getting away from it :) )
     
  3. Bonefish Blues

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    No, not a good guess at all.

    If anything, the Brits don't have enough affiliation/loyalty to our domestic brands IMHO. Mind you, at the last count there were about 3 or so left if you include Mrs Miggins' Pie Shop. ;)

    Grumpy's not far off the mark, I think. In the early days the vehicle acquired a reputation which has proved hard to shake. However, because it makes such an advantageous company car and many (if not a majority of - I forget the stat) cars are bought new in the UK by companies, not individuals, adoption of the Gen 3 has been swift.

    It's noticeable that when I got my first at the end of 2009 criticism on that Forum was particularly rabid, but now the converse is the case, with it taking its place as a viable option for many - and respected for its engineering in particular.
     
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  4. Astolat

    Astolat Member

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    The popularity of Top Gear. Seriously, I think it has a lot to do with it. It's a, justifiably, very popular peak-time programme, but it talks about cars in a way which is irrelevant to most people. They listen to Hammond and Clarkson salivating over horsepower and the epic low time that The Stig can fling a car around the track, and then go out and buy a second-hand Ford based on the colour and the number of cup-holders.

    The TG boys are insistent that the Prius is not a "driver's car", which it isn't; and is therefore rubbish, which it also isn't because most people are not "drivers" in the sense that they mean it. Some of the repeated mud flinging that it is a car for "ecomentalists" has stuck, particularly with Daily Mail readers. I think that's probably affected take-up of the Plug-in, though we don't get quite the level of anger that you guys seem to report - probably because we don't have carpool lanes. If PiPs were allowed to use bus lanes, then we'd get the same level of anger...
     
  5. Ian Mayo

    Ian Mayo Junior Member

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    I drive a PiP because it is a damn good car.
     
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  6. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    From watching Top Gear (BBC America carries it in the U.S.), it seems that their sole metric for judging a car is how it performs on a race track. For them, "driver" = "race car driver".
     
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  7. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I think it's because the PIP costs £31,000 here before the £5k grant. That is madness. There have been calculations that if it isn't overcharged, then the cost of the 15 miles range is about £12,000. No way does it cost an extra £12,000 to provide that.

    If the PIP falls to the same relative cost level that it is in the US it might sell, but as it is it's a pup not a PIP.
     
  8. jnet

    jnet Member

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    Without tax credit, PiP cost about $5000 more in the U.S. That's based on the price listed on dealers' web site. It would be worth getting it if Toyota throws in more rebates. Without incentives, PiP would never sell except to those die-hard EV fans. Driving 15 miles on EV would only save me about 40 cents a day since I could only charge once a day.

    Another issue is that the battery has a limited life. If the battery dies after the warranty expires, I will have to replace it and this time, there may not be any tax incentives to help me out with the cost.
     
  9. Phausto

    Phausto Junior Member

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    jnet your points sound more or less exactly like what I hear from my in-laws about the standard Prius. But when I mention my gas mileage they move on to the really pithy topics like how their hens are laying really well this year.

    Hey GrumpyCabbie, "mingers" is a keeper--thanks. It actually describes my dentist (who drives a Mini) even though he's a male.
     
  10. jnet

    jnet Member

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    Trust me, before I decided to buy the standard Prius, I did everything that I could trying to talk myself out of it. I tried everything to prove that the Prius is not worth it to me. However, the traveling distance that I put on daily justified the purchase. If I were a low mileage driver, I probably would have gotten a mid-size gas-only car or just stick with my old cars.
     
  11. Bonefish Blues

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    Eh? £33,245is the pre grant PiP list price GC.
     
  12. Ian Mayo

    Ian Mayo Junior Member

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    I have never found any facts that show a limited battery life for the battery, quite the opposite if you look at the experiences of people using the standard hybrid NiMH battery. Is there reason to believe that Toyota would not use the same expertise with the new Li-Ion battery?

    Has anybody got evidence the Pip battery might have long-term problems?
     
  13. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    No.

    The PIP is £26,495 after the grant, so would be £31,495 before it.

    What I was trying to suggest is that the extra battery to go 15 miles costs £12,000 over the base Prius. Example; the base Prius is £21,845 and that includes a HV battery that goes 1.5 miles. Remove the battery at a cost of £2,000 to replace it with the PIP battery capable of 15 miles, to give the cost of the Prius without any battery. That comes in at £19,500. Very rough calculations indicate that £31,500 - £19,500 = £11,000. So ok, I was a grand out.

    It doesn't cost £11,000 extra to make the Prius go an extra 13.5 miles. Therefore Toyota are charging too much for the PIP and hence sales are poor.
     
  14. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    The Li-ion batteries are not as bomb proof as the NiMH. They're much more fussy and require more management. Saying that, early indications are that they're still quite good and hardy. I doubt we'll see them going to 200k miles+ like SOME Prius do.
     
  15. jnet

    jnet Member

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    Why don't you write to Toyota to see if they would give the PiP buyer a 25 year warranty on the battery? My 85 Corrolla is still running even though I sold it a couple of years ago to a guy I worked with. Will the PiP battery last as long as my Corrolla? I don't want to find out unless Toyota backs it up with a free warranty.
     
  16. Bonefish Blues

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    No?

    Easy enough to re-check.

    Toyota UK's own site:
    Toyota Prius Plug-In | Toyota UK




    £28245 after the 5K grant, by my maths = £33245 before it, hence the list I quoted.

    Another 2 authoritative reference sites:

    Comcar Co2 Calculator


    Toyota Prius Hatchback Review | What Car?


    Not sure where your list came from GC?

    PiP's an industrial-grade expensive car in the UK - primarily because of the grant, I believe.
     
  17. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    When making the price comparisons, is that for comparably equipped vehicles? In the U.S., I think the PiP comes essentially equipped like a "loaded" Prius 3.
     
  18. Bonefish Blues

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    PiP in UK spec is very well equipped (but differently equipped to the US variants) - we get only a single spec.

    Toyota UK linky above will detail, if you're interested.
     
  19. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I looked at the Prius+ price by accident. The correct figures show that it is even more overpriced.
     
  20. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Yea, PiP comes well equipped. When comparing to a regular Prius, you can't choose the cheapest stripped down model.