EPA to Consumer reports - "your tests are awful" - hybrids do better than you test

Ford:Ford chimed in as well, saying it would help the EPA figure out whether its tests were inflating the fuel economy estimates for many hybrids.

I give Ford high marks for cheek. However, I'll shop elsewhere.

 

CR in general sucks.

 

According to the EPA, the C-Max had an inflated combined fuel economy estimate of 47 mpg because Ford used test results from the more aerodynamic Fusion Hybrid, which shares a powertrain with the C-Max and weighs about the same.


Obviously, Ford used poor judgement in neglecting the Cd difference between the Fusion and C-Max. Presumably, this would affect primarily highway mpg, although it appears that owners are seeing a reduced combined mpg.
Btw, anyone have the Cd of the Fusion and C-Max?

I am glad Toyota step up and declare the problem to be with Ford, not hybrids in general. This is unusual, because I've seen over 10 years that Toyota doesn't have a very good track record of defending the Prius from attacks and misinformation.


This whole controversy was ridiculous to begin with. All of the Fusion and C-Max owners should have known YMMV. If they truly wanted stellar mpg (and wanted to be able to better control their mpg through the frequency of charge-ups) they could have opted for the Energi versions. That's something Toyota owners can't do since there is no plug-in version of the Camry Hybrid or the Prius V.

Bottom line: if you were dead set on the Fords, and want the best mpg, get the one with the plug.

 

Can't blame the test if the car was not tested!
Motor Mouth: Ford bragged about fuel economy in a car it didn’t even test

Ford: We didn't overstate C-Max Hybrid mpg, low numbers were a surprise

 

My note to Christopher:

I got a couple of bounce mails trying to pass this note on. I understand he'll see the note next week.

Bob Wilson

 

Above all of the noise, there are a majority of us that do very well with the hybrids. I continuously average 42 in my new Prius V. My lowest tank of 39 was done with little regard for mileage, I was in a hurry So from an EPA estimated 42 combined, my Prius Crashed all the way down to 39 lol

I'm still surprised that the Fusion Hybrid remains untouched. Hardly anyone has gotten the 47/47/47 out of that car, even those really trying to. Everyone talks about the mileage getting crushed in the cold winter months as well. Possibly for shorter trips. Our experience is that out 2007 Camry Hybrid might drop down to 35 average with snows. Two elements that do impact mileage here are wind and rain. My mileage dropped one tank in my new V by 4 mph when we had torrential winds and rain for a week. The interstates became rivers.

 

The Fusion is what they used for the EPA test (not the C-Max) so its accurate since it has lower drag and more aerodynamics - question is there a link for hardly anyone getting 47 MPG with the Fusion (or is Fuelly the link) ?

 

AG- Goodness knows generally wording/typos not big deal for me but since this is the Prius Chat headline story, "They said there tests are are fine" I am not sure who we are talking about (CR or EPA) and there should be their?

 

Fascinating. Any word on whether the 2013's can have their software updated?
How cool it would be to have your mpg improve the minute after you take it to the Ford dealer.....or even cooler, have the software patch sent to your Fusion wirelessly.

I'm not so sure? I think Toyota's attempt to make the distinction between the C-Max and other hybrids is unlikely to gain much attention.
However, I do think the Prius itself has gained a reputation as hitting EPA #'s dead-on, after 10 years of data on fueleconomy.gov, fuelly, etc.
Since the Prius is the first thing people think of when they hear 'hybrid', I'm not so sure that it is conventional wisdom that hybrids never achieve EPA.
In fact, the recent flaps with testing methods, new hybrids from Ford, and the battery problems with Civic Hybrid, only serve to re-inforce the meme of Toyota as hybrid leader.
The CR/EPA/Ford 'episode' will probably have negligible effect on the overall hybrid market.

 

From the start of the arguments last year, I thought it was clear. The Ford Hybrids tested by virtually everyone never achieved the sticker ratings. I've had five different vehicles since 2007, and all five are Toyotas. They all achieved their stated mpg ratings, including our current 2007 Camry hybrid and the new Prius V I have. In fact, the only time that our 2007 CH gets as low as the "NEW" EPA ratings (changed in 2008), are in the winter. If I choose, I can easily get better mileage from both without any real extra effort. I've actually been surprised at the mileage both cars got on separate highway trips, with average speeds always over 70 and little regard for anything other than making time.

So let's be real here. Many people that baby the heck out of the new Ford hybrids, either the Fusion or Cmax, still find it near impossible to get near the coveted 47 Combined rating.

So while Ford and others try desperately to drag everyone into their little world, it's still Their world. It's why the new Camry hybrid is so close to the combined rating, and within 1 mpg of the Fusion hybrid in driving tests and reviews. Ford desperately needs the Cmax to be compared with the Prius V for mileage, even though in class size, it's closer to the regular Prius hatchback. The V has a LOT more room than the Cmax.

 

One needs only to go to Fuelly or to Compare Side-by-Side and let's see which car maker is a bit off.

another with a 2012 year car as well. Compare Side-by-Side

I detect a pattern, not so much an EPA issue.

 

...OK tnx much better...title is fine as attention grabber

 

Looking at the EPA certification fuel, if I understand, its is Ethanol-free E0 with 93 R+0 octane (minimum!) which would (equate to about 89 minimum Pump octane) and 35% max. aromatics.

>>>Many of us Prius drivers only wish we would be allowed to use that juicy fuel!! We'd all have a better chance at 50 MPG on the display gauge.

I am thinking CR is using typical EPA Reforumlated gaso with 10% ethanol at 87 Pump octane, and I am thinking it could be significantly lower aromatics (as per CARB/EPA regs)....aromatics being juicy energy content. So much less chance of 50 MPG in a Prius with this lower energy content, higher ethanol content EPA-mandated fuel.

This might explain some of the difference between EPA/CR MPG ratings. However, most of us would agree the EPA test seems to give reasonable prediction for Prius running on E10, for whatever reason, any errors cancel out. My conspiracy hypothesis is neither EPA nor CR cares to clarify the impact of E10 and RFG on their MPG tests. Conventional wisdom is of course not much impact of fuel quality on MPG, but I wonder on high MPG cars like Prius it may be more obvious impact.

 

Between the various Priuses, there's not much going on deviation-wise. The CR test on cars like the new Camry Hybrid, 2014 Honda Accord, standard Camry, they all did pretty well compared to their EPA ratings. What's needed is less BS and better journalism. At least the CU tests on all but the Prius came in with accolades. The Fords didn't do well at all.

Point being, if Ford continues to BS the ratings, at some point, even the most ardent supporter has to become mildly irritated. The Fusion Hybrid sticks out like a pink turnip in the EPA ratings comparisons. Similar in real world mileage to the Cmax hybrid, instead of people discussing aerodynamics and such, just tell the truth. The Fusion Hybrid should have been changed just as the Cmax was.

 

On your first post, click on edit, when the screen pops up, click on more options and the screen pops up where you can edit the title.