Introduction, initial concerns (long)

Pretty darn close to it. I knew the steering wheel was sketchy for me going into it, and it's been bit of a challenge.
Sounds weird, but if there was nowhere to put the foam pad to rest my right leg on, like no where in the 2nd gen Prius, I would be selling or have sold this 3rd gen by now.

But the foam pad has helped a good bit. Allowed me to raise seat nearly 1/3 the way up and have a place to rest leg (raising seat decreases thigh support because seat arcs forward when raised).

It would have been easier to just get an Accord SE in 2011, lower trim, but with power leather, enjoy it until better hybrids come out. To me, hybrids are 'ok' at this point, but there's nothing truly excellent out yet, except perhaps in the big bucks range.

 

Average fuel economy indicators are becoming common in conventional cars now. Camry SE I drove yesterday had it (although ODO, trips, Avg FE ... only one could be displayed at a time, stupid). Civic and Accord have avg FE gages, as do many others.

 

I appreciate your sincerity and I get where you are coming from. It's good to forewarn others so they don't fall in the same trap. For everyone of us who loves these cars, there are others who quickly realize that the Prius was the wrong choice.

Heck. Some days I just want to drive so I drive my Acura.

 

Captain Starbuck,

Disclaimer: I don't know Dianne nor have ever met her.

From what I've read here, she has helped a lot of members here get some pretty sweet deals on Prius. You might want to pay her a visit in SoCal. Let us know how it goes.

From her postings here:

Dianne Whitmire
Fleet Sales Director
Carson Toyota | Scion
1333 E 223rd Street, Carson, CA 90745
949 689 0717 cel
310 522 2317 desk line
707 202 3618 eFax
[email protected]​

Here's her latest update:

Dianne's SoCal Prius Deals for May and June 2013 - Liftbacks and v wagons and c's! Read more: | PriusChat

 

I can see how even the liftback Prius is an ideal car for many. Most people are shorter than me and have much shorter legs than me. Toyota put in what I think is quite a good seat in the car. I can set it right where I want. But even the best steering wheel position will just grate on me over time, so the only choice is to move the seat up and forward because the wheel does not tilt down quite enough or scope close enough. It is what it is, built to a price in a country where average male is 5' 7" tall. I am 7" taller than that. In a similar sized car, Civics have always adjusted up to my liking. They just seem to have more ergonomic excellence, but there is no proof of that. Too subjective.

 

Average & Trip helps, but it's still easy to not notice the influencing factors without having minute-by-minute detail. Of course, the approach of reporting MPG rather than Units/Distance is misleading anyway.

 

My statement to CaptainStarbuck was merely to point out the fact that when it comes right down to the dollar for dollar, the Prius (which ever one) is not the absolutely cheapest/best value option using his math on post #24, or similar.

Though I am thoroughly happy with the choice I made, I thought it wise to temper the "Kool-Aid" with my individual circumstances, wants and needs, to the true cost when deciding. For me it's just a car, so it was apples to apples cost/value, with the time of ownership gamble. Based on five year average mileage ownership, the Yaris still wins the math, I just didn't want one. I believe they are doing the right thing to consider all aspects of their purchase. What is good for you or me, may or may not be good for someone else. Apologies for the cross talk Captain.

 

Frodoz737,

No worries. That makes sense.

Kool-Aid! I love Kool-Aid! JK.
I don't usually hear people use that term unless you work in a particular industry...

 

This thread has offered a lot of excellent exposition on what owning a Prius and driving a vehicle with Hybrid Synergy Drive actually translates into...

And I think that definition should be the key motivator as to whether someone purchases a Prius or not.

But I would also say, that in my short time as a Prius owner, I am as impressed with some of the pure utilitarian aspects of the vehicle as I am with the benefits of Hybrid Synergy Drive.

The Prius is IMO a very comfortable vehicle. (although some have had a Dante's Inferno conflict with the seats) but for me personally? I find The Prius to be very comfortable.

The hatchback aspect creates the possibilty for good utility for it's size. The back seat area is roomy enough for comfortable passenger transportation, AND I also find a great side benefit of Hybrid Synergy Drive is a vehicle that I find to be quieter than average in operation. If it is warmed up, and the battery charged it actually turns itself off at stops and will run EV at slower speeds. You don't get too much quieter than "No Engine Running".

Again...how much someone might desire Hybrid Synergy Drive and owning a Prius for THOSE hybrid benefits I think MUST be key to whether someone purchases a Prius. But I would also say, IMO it's a very nice vehicle as a vehicle itself.

 

10 miles a day may not be enough for a hybrid. The plug-in may be more like it.
Search a hybrid may not be for you. This may help. Good luck to you.

SCH-I535 ? 2

 

Captain,

Do you have a follow up?

 

Purely based on cost:
With only 3,700 miles/year, I'd buy the cheapest non-hybrid I could find. You're not going to recoup the costs with such a small amount of miles, and unless the 10 miles is only two trips, you won't even come close, because it takes Priuses a bit to warm up. The only vehicle with batteries I'd possibly consider is a Smart EV, but I know very little about them.

If you don't travel more than 10 miles/day ever or if you have access to another ICE car, I'd look into a Leaf or (possibly) smart electric, but those will still end up costing more than the cheapest ICE car you can find.

 

You may be over thinking this decision. Generally the cheapest option is to drive, fix and drive some more the current car you own.

As soon as you move from that approach you are spending more because you like something more. The Prius is safe, it works and is economical. I am 6 ft 2 in and find the seats fine. My wife is 5 ft 3 in and is also comfortable.

Short trips in a warm climate are not bad at all. My typical short trip is 13 miles round trip and in warm weather see 60 plus displayed, real 56 mpg.

Drive one on tests drives or even rent one for a trip. If you like it and can afford it buy it.

 

I didn't take time to read all the posts, but if someone hasn't already said it... If you are only driving 10 miles per day, it almost doesn't matter what you buy or what you drive. I really don't mean this in a negative sense, and I realize if everybody thought this way we would never make progress in building transportation efficiency, but...there are plenty of new cars today that are fairly mpg efficient and clean, and for 10 miles per day, why spend extra. Get the car you want. Get the car you like and can afford. (Keep in mind I drive a Prius and an iMiev).

Another way to look at your situation is to go all electric. Again, for 10 miles per day, why lug around an ICE, and worse yet combine it with a hybrid or plug-in system? Get a Leaf or an iMiev.

Oh, I forgot to add...the Prius is not an experiment. It has been around over 10 years and has been driven billions of miles, I suspect. No other car maker has come close to the efficiency of it.

 

If you read any forum on any product be it car, refrigerator, washing machine you will be overloaded and also scared by the many negative experiences people have had. But of course people who have positive experiences are busy using the thing and not writing about it so there is a self selecting bias built into the forums.

One thing I am struck by as I read priuschat is that people are pretty problem free in general compared to the other forums I frequent. Not that there is a perfect car...I posted what I like and don't like about a v and the list is about equal in length but the importance of the likes so far outweighs the dislikes/could-be-improveds that I'm quite glad I bought it.

Think hard about what you want the car to do, take multiple test drives, drive it on your roads, park it in your garage. I replaced a SUV (CRV) and sportscar (Porsche) with a hybrid station wagon (Prius v) that had some fun electronics to keep me from going to sleep. It does exactly what I bought it to do. Takes me the 100 miles to the grandkids for half the price of the CRV and can still pack enough freezer boxes that I can get a $600 COSTCO order back home or the 6' xmas tree to the dump. I drive it just as I would any normal car (well maybe the Porsche was driven a little differently) no special techniques as once you get to 40 MPG the added benefit of a MPG is just not important enough for me to do so. Perfect car, heck no. Never had one, never will. But plenty good enough. Could I have bought a Tesla...sure. But why?

If you are going to average 10 miles per day, maybe 4000 per year, why not just buy a safe conventional car from a brand that has a reliability reputation. You need many more miles to spread out the added costs of anything beyond that before they make sense. I diddled up a simple spreadsheet of the costs, options, miles I expected to drive, etc and let that be part of the consideration of what I wanted to buy. I varied the length of time I'd keep the car to see where the payback of buying a hybrid would be FOR ME. My average car is kept 10-12 years so my answer could be different than yours.

And then I bought on the color of the car, the entertainment system and emotion just like everybody else does <grin>.

Good luck.

 

It may help to make a list of priorities in what you are looking for.

I would N-E-V-E-R have considered a 1st Gen Prius. It's new and unproven. That's not my style. Now that it's in its 3rd Gen, it's safe to say the verdict is out about how good it is.

I have two basic reasons to be concerned about buying a car with so much "tech" in it. First, the danger of an EMP event making the car useless (please don't laugh ). My Mazda has a computer in it, yes, but if I disconnect the battery BEFORE such an event happens, everything should work fine once it's hooked back up. I don't have that option with the Prius (short of installing physical disconnects to both batteries I could throw manually). EMP only damages circuits that have power to them or a long enough run of wire on the circuit to act as an antenna that generate an electrical spike (think of how a generator works). Second, that any "repair" the Prius needs down the road could be downright expensive because of all the "tech."

On the first, well, there's not much you can do, and I do take "comfort" that if an EMP event happens, I'll probably have bigger concerns than my car not running.

On the second, well, the Prius has excellent Consumer Report ratings, so for all those who have had bad experiences, there is still a flood of people who have had good experiences. Then, when it's all said and done, if my experience with a Prius is lackluster, I won't buy another one.

So, with that said, what were my "barriers" to buying a Prius?

1. Cost (somewhat). More than a Corolla or Camry but about the same as a Tacoma (not decked out). Also, I found the Prius Three, Four and Five were overkill with features I really had no use for. The few things I really liked could be done aftermarket or separately for less than paying thousands more for the bundled deal. So, it wasn't that much more and I liked it over other options.

2. Comfort. The 2012 was a loser in my book. I couldn't get in and out without constantly readjusting the driver's seat. The 2013 did ergonomic changes that solved that problem for me.

3. Long-term maintenance issues. I'm not sure how much work on a Prius can be done by the owner. I've insisted on manual transmissions because they are cheaper to fix than any automatic. More so, baring abuse, manuals only have issues with the clutch every now and then. How long an automatic lasts depends on doing the required maintenance, not abusing it, and how well it is made. Once any vehicle passes 100K, stuff is bound to start breaking down from age and wear. Diligent maintenance goes a long way, but there are no guarantees. A standard ICE vehicle has nothing I couldn't likely fix myself or pay any competent mechanic to fix. The Prius??? Well, I'm gambling that by the time my Prius needs significant work done, someone OTHER than Toyota will be qualified to fix it right so there is competition for my business.

That said, it was a short, short list of what out there was a contender for purchase. The next question dealt with each item's pros and cons.

If I were you, I'd list what vehicles tickle your fancy. List what you like about each and what you don't like. Sometimes that's all you need to realize something doesn't belong on the list.

As far as what to get, the V gives you more interior space but a little less mileage. Do you need that? The C is smaller, and I've seen it get lesser ratings than the standard Prius.

If you buy "now," the 2013s are going because they are making way for the 2014s. Will the 14s be improved enough to justify not getting a deal on a 13?

I know of no serious issues with prior Prius designs to say "wait for next year's model." Well, except as I had an issue with the ergonomics of the 2012 model. If you try a 2013 and like it as it is, the question is what will be offered in the 2014 to justify waiting? I doubt it will be much more than cosmetics. Heck, I opted for a Prius Two (base model) because all the "packages" were full of bloat I didn't need or couldn't use. The reverse camera would have been nice, but I can add it for under $300 rather than pay $1,500 for it. The solar roof would have been nice, but I'm not paying $3,000 for it (an $800 remote starter will offer the same essential benefit for less).

I too got so caught up over the "options" then realized when I compared trim levels, I paid a lot to get so little that mattered to me.

 

By the time it rolled out here, the technology had already been out a few years and had already been upgraded.

As for being proven, take a look at how many problems traditional vehicles were still having back then. In fact, transmission failure in my Taurus was the very thing that compelled me to look for something better. My 2001 Prius purchase overwhelming proved that a wise choice.

 

What are you trying to do and how are you trying to rationalize it?

Would the Prius only occupy the role of a commute back/forth to work vehicle? Would it be a primary or secondary vehicle? Are your reasons for buying one purely economic?

 

The cure for TMI/TMO is to drive one. The apparent complexity melts away once you become familiar with the simplicity of key-less entry and start, shift to D and start moving.

Once you're familiar with the conventional, then you may start to explore new driving techniques to get the most from it. The beauty of the car is that if you want to get better fuel economy (and by extension, become a better driver), then the Prius will reward you, sometimes immediately, sometimes when you fill up.

I ignore arguments like, "you won't save enough in fuel costs to make up the difference in the sticker price", since it ignores what else you get in a Prius for the money. I might as well tell someone to buy a Yugo instead of a Lexus and use the money saved on petrol, repairs, new engines and a chiropractor.

The Prius is a fun car. Drive it well and the fuel economy can be amazing. Drive it like a maniac and the fuel economy will be remarkably good; far worse than what you could have achieved but far better than driving any other car like a maniac.