May-August Hydrid Dashboard Report

So, piston rings don't wear allowing more oil into the combustion chamber on gasoline cars, and their catalytic convertors are immortal?

 

Lexus RX hybrids are on a great growth trend and the Beetle Diesel is growing in sales as well.

Also noteworthy is the sporty Lexus GS hybrid has been getting higher sales in these months too. Maybe sports sedan lovers are getting accustomed to the awesome acceleration that an electric motor can give you.

Interesting to me is that the forTwo EV sales have a about tripled this month.

 

August 2013 Dashboard - HybridCars.com
The Lexus RXh is down 11.9% ytd, not up. This follows a long term downward trend. Price premium is high for the hybrid system versus other hybrids, and a price adjustment could help. That price drop might only come with a redesign to make the hybrid system less expensive. Lexus GSh, although it has more horsepower than the non-hybrid models and has great acceleration, actually has less acceleration (longer 0-60 times) and poorer handling, the 14.9% ytd growth has to be about people wanting more fuel economy. The GSh sells is really small numbers though, so it could just be a statistical anomaly.

On the beetle diesel, its new for this year. People seem to want new diesel choices. The big growth this year in the hybrid space has been the prius c, newly designed fusion hybrid, and new c-max.

August 2013 Plug-In Electric Vehicle Sales Report Card

 

The smart ED was also planned to be nationwide by the end of the year. So its market region might be expanding.

 

I think you ahve that backwards.. the new clean "bluetec" Diesels are using Urea, the stuff in Urine that makes it have an ammonia like smell.... So they are more closely aligned with Toilets.
Adding Urea To Clean Diesel Cars: Can I Just Pee In The Tank?


Bob: thanks for the updating. Interesting to see the clustering and nice to see a plug in the second group ;-)

 

My dad was a bit ahead of his time. He bought a new '73 Mercedes diesel back then (model 280D, I think). It was supposed to revolutionize driving the family car. Diesel fuel was actually cheaper than gasoline at the time. It was smelly, hard to start in the winter, had expensive engine repairs. Yeah, I know, today's technology is way better. I've been hearing this story for forty years now. The technology of gasoline engines and EVs is way better too, which keeps pushing diesel behind the pack.

Is the US sitting on so much spare diesel fuel, that if we use it, we will stop importing oil? The future is in alternative fuels, not reformulations of fossil fuels. I realize we are not quite there yet.

I absolutely do not see diesel taking over the family car, minivan, or SUV for all the reasons mentioned above. It doesn't appeal to soccer moms, male sports car enthusiasts, and not even environmentalists. It has it's place to be sure...

 

Here we go again. You'd better see a doctor, check your olfaction, it is level/origin biased.

 

In the arena of bio-fuels, diesels have an advantage at this time. Biodiesel seems a better investment than ethanol. The only reason some new diesels can only go up to B5 is because the manufacturer choose to save some on production costs.

Unless politics change, and we can get bio-butanol and/or methanol, biodiesel is better than ethanol.

Seeing how the Mazda6 with diesel won a big race it was entered in, and Audi has also had success with diesel racers, I think the performance crowd can be won over.
Plenty of environmentalists run diesels on WVO or biodiesel.
I think the soccer moms will go diesel if it beats hybrid to the minivan/crossover segment.

We switched over to natural gas for heating a couple years ago. Before that, we used #2 heating oil. With ten times as much sulfur as old blend road diesel, that stunk. I once had to grab 5 gallons of ULSD to keep the system running. Spilt some. Compared to the heating oil, no smell. Friend had a diesel Rabbit back in the day. Compared to refueling from then, the ULSD has no smell.

There is an odor. With the volatility difference, gasoline is stronger. I come across the rotten egg smell of a bad cat on a gasser, more often than smoker diesels these days.

 

as we said before, new hybrids bring new sales... Avalon and ES as well as Prius c and Ford hybrids... new Honda's will expand market as well.

I am not sure what other hybrids are coming in the next year, but whatever they are, they will bring up the number of hybrids/phevs/ev sold... maybe up to 5%.

For ES, Avalon and Camry, hybrid % sold is around 20%-25%... those are very good numbers.

 

to add to that - in Europe, new Auris and Yaris hybrids are both getting 30%-35% market share.

so build them and they will come

 

Bob- May I ask how do you construct a html table like that? Just manually by hand or a faster way?
What I have been doing is converting Excel spreadsheet t0 jpg (via Powerpoint) and then post the jpg in the post.

 

Yes the Avalon and ESh have added over 20k hybrid cars ytd

 

But of course you do, you live in US, how many diesels out there? 1%? Come to visit any European country and you will see black smoke regularly. You won't even notice a petrol car.

 

Done that before. Trollbait has been invited to see in persona, but hasn't accepted yet.

 

Must of missed that. Should I PM you on where to send the ticket?

I have never denied that the diesel emissions in Europe were bad. I only take exception when Europe's little to no emission control fleet, with possibly higher sulfur content fuel, is held up as an example of what will happen here with increased sales of American emission specced diesels. I pointed out here or another of these threads that the 2014 Golf and Passat TDI are ULEV, which is beyond the minimum. That makes them as clean as the Camry, and most of Toyota's other non-hybrids.

Yes, the fleet mix has its impact on the observation. But I was trying to point out that fuel type has no bearing on the percentage of people that won't maintain their car's emission system.

I also said it because you need to look for the TDI emblem on a new VW to tell if it's a diesel when spotted on the road here.

Yes, Europe has pollution problems from diesels. The US also used to have pollution problems from gasoline cars before emission controls. New diesels in the US have to meet the same standards as gasolines. The pre-emission control diesel fleet is small, and has little impact on US air quality. So, like the WHO study on the health effects of uncontrolled diesel exhaust in the enclosed space of a mine, the emissions of Europe's current diesel fleet do not apply to the US.

 

Yes, I have invited you to visit Europe before. No travel ticket yet, but I can garantee you a nice cup of expresso here in Portugal. Cafe decks are great to watch smoke out of pipes of cars.

As for sulfur content, Europe has lowered to

Mandatory environmental fuel specifications are introduced by EU Directives. The following are the most important steps in the evolution of EU diesel fuel specifications:

• Effective 1994.10, a maximum sulfur limit of 0.2% (wt.) was introduced for all gas oils, including diesel fuel. The minimum cetane number was 49.
• 1996.10: A maximum sulfur limit of 0.05% (wt.) = 500 ppm for diesel fuel.
• 2000.01: A maximum sulfur limit of 350 ppm and cetane number of 51 for diesel fuel.
• 2005.01: A maximum sulfur limit of 50 ppm for diesel fuel for highway vehicles. “Sulfur-free” 10 ppm sulfur diesel fuel must be available.
• 2009.01: A maximum sulfur limit of 10 ppm (“sulfur-free”) for diesel fuel for highway vehicles.

see Fuels: European Union

Remember sulfur content has nothing to do with PM...

 

+1

I've definitely seen the diesel pollution in europe. Its rather obvious that a system that treats co2 as the big bad pollutant and chose to be weak in regulating particulates, SO2, and NOx was going to get more of those pollutants. Its amazing how well a tax policy and regulatory policy across many nations reduced oil use and increased pollution. The US policy for lower pollution and higher oil use, seems to have been effective also. Why couldn't our countries have pollicies for low oil use and low pollution? grr.

Ultra low sulfur diesel does reduce particulates, but requires a properly working dpf.

Euro 6 and ultra low sulfur fuel will do much to reduce this pollution. Euro 6 doesn't really kick in until next year, and people will keep these old polluting diesels, most of which don't even qualify for euro 5, for a long time. The US diesel pollution is mainly from medium and heavy vehicles, and vehicles made before 1996. That will take awhile to work through, but regulations are in place.

 

Lowering sulfur does help with particulates, but those are only part of the emissions. It needs to be lowered to allow the use of catalytic convertors. Which are needed to lower NOx, one of the contributors to smog. The other is VOCs. The lowered sulfur also reduces SO2 emissions.

As pointed out, the US never had a large diesel car fleet, and yet smog was still a problem here before emission regulations. New gas cars are incredibly clean compared to the pre-regulated ones. Now we can take that experience and apply it to diesels. They won't be perfect at first, but they will improve. Then, when direct injected engines are more common, we can take the experience with DPF and apply it to gasoline cars.

 

GM September of 2013 Sales Down 11.0% + Chevrolet Cruze TD Review - CleanMPG Forums​

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