What's with all the salvaged titles???

Your post is full of false conclusions. Singular data points and images do not make a rule.

Yes there are times that an expensive vehicle is "totalled" for simple body work. For instance, in my DeLorean if any 2 body parts are dented, the insurance company would total it because it is nearly impossible to get replacement parts. Fenders are in the $20K to $25K range a piece. You could dent it if you fell into it. The car is perfectly safe, it would be salvage, and voila.

You also draw the completely wrong conclusion from the pictures you posted. When you see a car in an accident with any non-negligable speed, you WANT to see it look like that. Hood crumpled, back completely shoved in, those sorts of things. That means that the energy of the impact went into the structure of the vehicle and not into your human flesh. It is a great science to make "crumple zones" which do exactly that. They crumple and look horrible but inside you are perfectly safe. The old boats made out of solid steel that don't give at all? Those are the dangerous ones where people can die. All the force redirected into you in an accident. Or if the accident is bad enough places that weren't designed to buckle, buckle like the pillars and frame around the person. Shoving the pedals into your foot, steering wheel into your chest, side panels into your sides.

It is admirable that you want to save people, but you really need to understand the vehicle a lot more before drawing these conclusions about all cars. Every salvage vehicle should be examined individually before purchase. Some will have frame damage, hidden damage, poor repairs, you name it. Others truly will be fender benders.

Another anecdotal story, my Honda Prelude racer was stolen earlier this year by some heroin addict hooligans. The car was totalled when reclaimed. Mechanically it works great. But in their drug induced stupor they scratched the hell out of almost every body panel on the car, and dented in a fender. Repair bill for completely repainting the vehicle and body work on the entire vehicle was slightly more than the value of the vehicle. It will be sold as salvage to someone with time and patience and they will get a mechanically great car with no previous problems that is just dinged up.

 

As one data point, I bought my salvage title GenII through Craiglist, and the whole experience was good. I got a really clean car for a reasonable price, that has been flawless for 2 years. I don't know if laser inspection of the chassis for cracks is totally foolproof, but it is required over here in such a case. It was as the owner said, just a fender bender that was repaired properly. So it does happen....

 

nothing is fool proof, I have seen cars clean title that are total crap! Same goes to cars with history/ accident =cars that are carp! Also owned both clean and rebuilt title that were super good (over 5 of each type). Certain cars I would never get rebuilt title and some cars are just soo cheap after accident and with history that I couldn't pass. Best advice is to have the seller show you pictures after accident car and have someone who knows what they are looking at look at them and the car. Same with clean title, bring someone that knows cars even if you have to pay them few bucks, its cheap security for a large purchase. =) If it feels shady it probably is, if I feel the seller is normal I purchased. (side story-my Audi S4 was totaled after side window was broken to open the hood and than the thief's stole my headlights, during removal they scratched the front bumper cover and fenders-all happened in front of my house. Initially the insurance gave me hard time, than totaled it and best part yet is that I bought the car back on the insurance auction. After fix/ state inspection I have same car back with money in my pocket and a Rebuilt title/ dirty history.) Dont care for resale value as I plan to drive it for long time and or if things change and I have to sell it, pricing it under trade in value few grand will definelty sell it, especially since I have kept pictures and a insurance appraisal for documentation of the damage=))) and receipts of all replaced parts showing they are OEM.

 

Hi Everyone on the Gen II Forum,

So I am looking to upgrade my wife's '03 to a newer lower mileage '08, '09 Prius, but am finding out that about 60-70% of them on Craigslist have salvage titles and even dealers have some. Now, I do have some auto body experience (2 years in High School) and have done auto and marine body repair for myself and friends throughout the years.

In any case, my question is why do so many Insurance companies total these cars out for what appears to be mostly cosmetic damage and minor non-structural damage? My '02 Prius is a salvage title and it runs and drives perfectly. If a car is repaired properly, why should there be a problem? I know what to look for as far as unibody, suspension, steering damage, etc. If a reputable shop does the restoration, especially a Prius specialized, why should I worry? Going prices are several thousand less for a salvage title. If one does their homework, why not?

Example is a '08 Level 6, Full touring package with 85,000 for $8900. Done by a Prius specialized house, with warranty.

Any thoughts??
Thanks!

 

Total has nothing to do with how easy it is to repair. If the cost is more than the car is worth, it is totalled. And the "cost" is dealership pricing, not Uncle Fred's Discount U-Pull Parts Yard.

Since there are lots of high dollar parts on a Prius it doesn't take long for new pricing of parts to total the car. And at the same time, the Prius is so reliable that parts left sitting on other totalled cars that haven't been touched are super cheap since there is almost no market for it. An inverter at the stealership can be $4K USD. An inverter on eBay can be had for $100-$200.

Of course there are reasons a car is totalled that doesn't have to do with cosmetic damage. It could have electrical gremlins that the last owners tried and failed to solve along with the insurance company. It could be flooded, almost a guaranteed totalling. Even after cleaning it up, the corrosion has done it damage.

I wouldn't buy a salvage Prius unless I could see exactly what it was salvaged for. Sometimes if you search for the VIN# online, you can find the auction it came from and maybe what it looked like before the repair.

The Prius holds its value. And right now with lower petrol pricing, it is a good time to buy.

 

Excellent points stated. That's why I feel doing your homework is critical. The car can look great, but come from a flood. Water and electrical does not mix. You'd want to pass on that one. The state it came from is important too. Check the history of that state. Cars on the Gulf, and coast states would have a high flood and rust factor due to water and salt. That's environmental factors. You also have the accident and impact factor. What was needing replacement, was the car inspected and correctly aligned, etc?

Agreed that it takes a certain level of knowledge to choose a good car, used or salvaged. Also as stated earlier, a "new" car can have issues. More unlikely, but not out of the ordinary. If a car doesn't have the factory recalls performed on parts, That can cause issues as well.

I guess we can go on and on. Bottom line is, do you feel comfortable allowing your 18 year old daughter or wife drive it having no knowledge of cars? Is it safe?

 

For your bottom line question, heck no. If a car your endorse breaks down on their watch, it is 100% your fault. Even if it was "making a funny sound" and/or had one of those "silly dash lights on" for a thousand miles before it stopped going. Still your fault.

 

I feel the salvage vehicles often have very little regulation to them. If the airbags don't work, the reason will be "It's salvaged". Toyota does not offer any warranty on them, regardless of mileage. Also I find all the salvage cars have very low mileage.....coincidence? I think not. I believe many of these cars are put back together and the mileage is rolled back to increase their value. Since warranties are all voided, the mileage isn't anything Toyota or the Department of Motor Vehicle would care about.

 

The standard answer is "It depends". Before buying a salvage car have it properly inspected by an expert.

One of my shop cars, a 2004 Prius has 165k on it. I bought it many years ago with 84k from a salvage rebuilder in Sacramento (on craigslist) who did things right. It has turned out to be a great car over the 6+ years I've been driving it.

Couple of months ago I bought a "totaled" car from Copart (sight unseen) to part out, when it arrived I noticed there was no frame damage, no airbag deployment, the alignment was spot on, and even the radiator and condenser had not been breached. I couldn't believe the insurance company totaled it. I put on fender, hood, bumper cover, a new headlight and sold it a young lady for thousands less than a similar "clean title" car. She's happy, I'm happy, and we saved a car from going to the crusher.

Last year after the Boulder floods a used car dealer bought a flooded Prius. Water was in the cabin about 8" deep. Car had a zillion error codes and would not READY UP. The used dealer hired us to remove everything that got wet and replace. New carpet/underlay, multiple ECUs, some wiring harnesses and connectors repaired/replaced. Cost the seller over $3000 in repairs even with used parts, but the buyer got a hell of great car at the end, it was an 08 with only 36k miles on it, perfect body. Been over a year now and no electrical gremlins have surfaced. Luckily it was fresh water, would not have been as easy with salt water situation.

My guess is that ignorant insurance company's total out Prius more often than "regular" cars because they think if the car is repaired and the shop makes a mistake then the car electrocutes people (which cannot happen) they will get sued. Could also be because OEM parts make the repairs expensive, but the salvage rebuilders use aftermarket and/or used parts which are plentiful and cheap for Gen2's.

There are also horror stories of people improperly fixing cars, and even doing things like installing a resistor where airbags go so the car "thinks" the airbags are still in the car and doesn't code.

Some rebuilders are scammers, others are closer to professional body shops.

If you are considering buying a salvage title car, have someone who knows that kind of car (or even any bodyshop) go through and inspect the car. Have the frame and alignment checked, Don't believe the salesman with nice smile.

Salvage title cars CAN be a good deal for a wise buyer, but they can be a headache too.

There may also be issues with getting full insurance coverage and/or financing on a salvage car, so that could be concern for some buyers.

Lastly don't forget down the road resale value will be less, but if you plan on keeping the car for 5 years or more that probably won't matter too much.

Bottom line, YMMV with salvage cars.

 

Paul, I think you are spot on,

The Prius shop in Sacramento has been doing these cars for over 10 years with an excellent reputation, which is the '08 car I stated in my original post. Also there is a shop in San Jose that backs up their cars that has been doing these for just as long. The key is checking them out first. There is a certain "stigma" the insurance companies have with Hybrid and electric cars that do not come with standard gasoline driven cars because of electrical components are so different from standard cars. I also agree that some insurance companies will not insure a salvaged vehicle, but there are some that will (Progressive). I added my '02 salvaged Prius to my multi-car motorcycle policy with no issue. Also, most banks and credit unions will not finance a Salvage car because of the perceived liability, however there are some that will, such as USAA, but you have to active or past military. You just have to check-

Also, "salvage title" can be that a car was donated to a wrecking yard, and if selling whole, that yard HAS to sell it back as a "salvage title" to the general public. If you have a dealer's license, then the title can be transferred normal. The previous owner of that car could have donated it because they didn't want to fix a mechanical issue, or simply did not need it anymore, yet it is "salvaged".

Again, use better judgment, listen to your gut and be armed with knowledge. Like anything in life, weigh the options. If the benefits outweigh the risk, then its probably a good option. I have owned several 'Salvaged" vehicles and had very good luck with them.

 

If you are purchasing the salvage car before any body work has been done to it, then it may be something worth doing. You'll know what's wrong and the work needed.

But if the salvage car is all fixed and pretty, then you'll have to question what was wrong with it before they fixed it. Too much unknown here!

 

Good point JC : ). A good shop will have documentation of the damage, otherwise it will be up to you to do your homework on it.

 

I found mine via Craigs list (it helped that the seller was detailed in his description). Once I verified the VIN, we negotiated until we agreed on the price. I drove 250 miles with a uhaul car trailer to pick it up (and it was better than I dared hope). Yes, there is a LOT of junk on CL..... but one has to know how to smoke out the gems (and pounce on them)...... which I know how to do. If the person has no maintenance history on the vehicle and won't share a VIN #....... RUN from that seller.

 

That's when the jerk behind you, because you stopped short, pushes your nice person into the semi's path. Thus flattening you, I would consider getting the hell out of the way a better move!

 

People just don't understand a salvage rebuild title. I've fixed two prii that have been in accidents... Both are clean titles!!! Scary right. Not at all. I've also fixed a "Salvage" Honda Fit and it had way less damage than my prius. It's paperwork. It would be nice to see the before pictures. I wouldn't want to buy a rebuilt title unless I could see the before pictures. But there is nothing wrong with the paperwork not being a "clean title." My "clean title" prius has been in a light front end collision. The car is awesome. It was an easy fix and a lot of salvage title cars are the same.

 

As others have said, the bottom line is a salvage / rebuild is only as good as the rebuilder. You are literally putting your life in their hands, so make sure they are trustworthy. When I bought my '05 new wasn't an option financially, and used were almost full price due to high fuel prices. I happened to be visiting Louisville, KY and went to meet Steve at AutoBeYours in Southern Indiana. Spent several hours touring the shop, seeing how he does what he does and driving several of his rebuilds. A few months later a car came along with the right specs and the right price. I flew back out and drove one home, saving about $8k (that I didn't have). ~85k miles later, still very happy with the decision.

FWIW yes the regular warranty is void, but I have had no issue with Toyota doing recalls and an HV battery replacement under warranty. YMMV.

Rob

 

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Bob Wilson