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What I will never miss by having a Gen III Prius

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by Bob G IA, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. Bob G IA

    Bob G IA Member

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    You know what I will never miss by have a Gen III Prius? I will never have to listen to my fan belt squealing on cold day after almost killing the battery hoping my car will start.
    After our recent cold snap I was surprised how many cars were in my parking lot at work with people grinding away trying to get them to start and the nasty sounds the cars made once they did start. Everything from rough running, not fireing on all cylinders, and/or belts squealing. Now I will admit the Prius did act a little different that day. When the ICE started it did sound like it was working a little harder than it usually does when I first start it. But in all reality at -20degF the ICE started the same as it ever did.
     
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  2. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    Fan belt? Radiator cooling fans have not been belt driven for many, many years. You must have been born before Sputnik 1 was launched.

    And yes during the recent cold blast when daytime temps didn't pass 0° F, the ICE in my Prius roared to life without difficulty. And roar to life it did. It's surprisingly noisy when it's super frigid outside.
     
  3. vskid3

    vskid3 Active Member

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    Check out some RWD cars/trucks. I'm not sure about brand new, but I know of some that are under 5 years old that don't have electric fans.
     
  4. Bob G IA

    Bob G IA Member

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    Actually my 1996 Suburban still uses a belt driven radiator fan. But I do know what you mean. I said "fan" belt to emphasis the fact that any use of a belt in a modern car whether it be to spin the fan or the alternator is seriously outdated.
    People say they don't want Prius because they are too complicated. Yes they are complicated. Just like adding a starter, A/C, electronic ignition instead of points, power steering, hydraulic brakes instead of mechanical, power brakes, disc brakes, alternator instead of DC generator.
    People buy the typical car expecting all those things now, but at one time were just added complexity that people resisted. I want thank Toyota for looking at the various sub-systems and finding better ways to power those systems instead of just going with the status quo that at times, like the starter, haven't changed much in 100 years. 1912 Cadillac first electric start car. Oh by the way it was a motor/generator starter. Have we come full circle?
     
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  5. phoenixgreg

    phoenixgreg Senior member

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    However, since you have a 2010, it is still possible for your 12 volt battery to die and leave you stranded. I just went thru that myself.
     
  6. Sagitar

    Sagitar Junior Member

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    Guilty as charged. I drove lots of cars with fan belts and I tend still to call 'em fan belts even though I know that fans are electric these days.

    But whatever they drive, the vee belts are still there; I still hear them squealing and they still break . . . . . :( . . . and like Bob, I am pleased not to have one.

    Having read your second post Bob, I can remember the fuss when manufacturers stopped including a starting handle and much later, at the first vehicles without manual window winders.
     
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  7. Bob G IA

    Bob G IA Member

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    I forgot a few.

    Water pump instead of gravity feed cooling
    electric fan in place of belt driven raditor fan
    fuel injection and computer to control it and ignition
    variable valve timing
    distributor cap and rotor replaced by ignition module
     
  8. Bob G IA

    Bob G IA Member

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    When I bought my 2010 in May I asked why the back hatch area floor wasn't installed. They said they were in the process of replacing the 12V battery but it hadn't come in yet. So yes, the 12V lead acid battery is the one of the throw back things that still fail.
    I think I know why the Prius at least Gen III is hard on 12V batteries. I noticed on my Scan Gauge II that the battery voltage goes up at least 14.1 Volts when I turn on the headlights. It looks like Toyota bumps up the voltage to make the lights brighter but that also means the charge voltage for the battery may be too high and eventually kills the 12V battery.
     
  9. phoenixgreg

    phoenixgreg Senior member

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    My Cadillac had a voltage readout (BTW, I miss that as an OEM feature) which when the battery was healthy, would show 14.1 volts too. On the Cadillac forum, my question was answered that the 14.1 was a "system" output and not necessarily just the battery output. So it means the generator/alternator will produce that voltage for the car when charging occurs. When the 12 volt battery gets weaker, that voltage fluctuates and drops - sometimes to a readout as low as 10 volts. Then it's time to replace it.
    Quote from bcae:
    The electrical system in an automobile is said to be a 12 volt system, but this is somewhat misleading. The charging system in most cars will generally produce a voltage between 13.5 and 14.4 volts while the engine is running. It has to generate more voltage than the battery's rated voltage to overcome the internal resistance of the battery. This may seem strange, but the current needed to recharge the battery would not flow at all if the charging system's output voltage was the same as the battery voltage. A greater difference of potential (voltage) between the battery's voltage and the alternator's output voltage will provide a faster charging rate.​
    As long as the engine is running, all of the power for the accessories is delivered by the alternator. The battery is actually a load on the charging system. The only time that the battery would supply power with the engine running is when the current capacity of the alternator is exceeded or when engine is at a very low idle.​
     
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  10. clgutierrez

    clgutierrez Junior Member

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    Fan belt?....some months ago I helped a friend who had issues with the coolant level of his 4 or 5 years old Toyota 4runner (maybe a Highlander, don't remember).
    I authoritatively said "when the coolant is hot enough the electro fan is going to work". He: "it always works". Me: "no, that's in old cars, let me show you"

    Well, the damned SUV has a belt driven fan!

    Sent ?
     
  11. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    The typical charging voltage for a Lead-acid battery is 14.4 volts. Your battery is being charged in the normal range.
     
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  12. ny_rob

    ny_rob Senior Member

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    It helps to have 206 volts for starting... :)
     
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  13. Bob G IA

    Bob G IA Member

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    That's true, up to the point the battery is charged. Once its charged the voltage needs to drop to the float voltage, which the Prius does, until you turn on the headlights. Once the headlights are turned on the voltage goes back up to the charge level, even if the battery conditions indicate the voltage should have remained at the float level. That's when the over charging occurs.
     
  14. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    Yes, I confirm that's what it does. Now the question is... Why and what is the net result? Folks with a lot of dark-time driving should have more battery problems. I expect I use my lights less than 5% of the time.
     
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  15. Bob G IA

    Bob G IA Member

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    Higher voltage will provide brighter headlights.
    I do wonder if those who use their headlights more in warm weather will have more problems with their 12V battery. The reason I say warm weather is the charge voltage needs be lower as the temperature goes up.
     
  16. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    Once you turn on the headlights, or simply wait in Park for a little while, the 12v battery is going to be discharging. Now its time for the charger to go on. The state of charge is high so to charge the battery 14.4 volts is reasonable. Cycling back and forth 13.6 - 14.4 -13.6... doesn't seem to be a good idea. So the "charging" voltage is set at 14.4 and most of the current goes to the headlights, etc. If you've ever run a charger with a current meter you know that the charging current gets quite small when the state of charge is high. Its not necessarily a good thing to be continuously charging even a small current when not needed. However, while there are various discussions about battery problems it doesn't seem that everyone is replacing their battery often.
     
  17. hybridbear

    hybridbear Member

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    I don't miss having to worry about a timing belt breaking. I don't miss replacing brake pads/rotors every couple years.
     
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