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2001 won't run - lot of codes but no smoking gun-help

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Mr_I_Want_More_MPG, Jan 18, 2014.

  1. Mr_I_Want_More_MPG

    Mr_I_Want_More_MPG Junior Member

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    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Model:
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    P0420 CATALYST EFF BELOW THRESHOLD
    P0440 EVAP EMMISSION SYSTEM
    P0441 EVAP EMM SYSTEM INCORRECT PURGE FLOW
    P0446 EVAP VENT CONTROL CIRCUIT
    P3190
    P3191
    P0300 RANDOM MISFIRE
    P0301 CYL 1 MISFIRE
    P0304 CYL 4 MISFIRE


    Was driving on highway in mild rain and car started to shudder and stalled. I ran it on the electric motor for a while to get out of traffic so it's fairly drained. Has a year old main battery and a year old 12V Optima battery. Car has 202,000 miles.
    The cat code and possibly evap were on all year as check engine light has been on. I get the triangle of death with exclamation point on the right car icon on the screen as well as the check engine light. After resetting the codes the triangle hasn't come back. Haven't rechecked the other codes as it was a borrowed generic scanner.
    Just checked the 12V battery at Autozone and they say it's good but discharged. Car won't start and it seems to kill the 12V battery if left to sit. I did the throttle body and MAF clean even though they both looked ok. A little oil in the intake so I mopped it up. Didn't help. I hooked up another 12V battery with jumper cables and it doesn't help. Checked the fuel pump relay and it's ok. I pulled spark plug 1 and it was fine. Check main battery and 12V connections -all fine - tight and no corrosion.
    I'll try to check fuel pressure and spark but what else can I check next before having it towed to a repair shop?
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I would suggest the following:

    1) Fully charge the 12V battery now. Disconnect the negative battery cable where it attaches to the body, to clear any existing DTC logged by the ECUs.
    2) Remove the cylinder 4 spark plug and inspect it as well as the spark igniter. The correct gap is 1.0 - 1.1 mm. Replace the spark plug if the gap is wider - and actually, if there are any concerns about the plugs, replace all four using the correct NGK or Denso iridium spark plugs. The Classic spark plug change interval is 60K miles. Clean off the spark igniter body and look for any flaws such as cracking, burn marks, rust deposits, or corrosion in the electrical contacts. Replace if needed.
    3) Did you find water in any of the spark plug wells? That will cause misfiring.
    4) Reassemble the cylinder 4 spark plug into the spark igniter. Hook up the wiring harness connector to the spark igniter. Attach a short grounding wire from the spark plug threaded shell to ground.
    5) After #1 is done, reconnect the 12V battery.
    6) Have a helper try to make the Prius READY while you observe the cylinder 4 spark plug. a) Do you see a healthy spark? b) Do you smell unburned gasoline vapor coming out of the spark plug hole? Do this test for a very short period and in a well-ventilated area since the gasoline vapor constitutes a potential fire hazard.
    7) Regarding your concern about the 12V battery being drained by quiescent current draw when the car is IG-OFF: the current draw should be around 0.03A when all doors are closed and the trunk light is off. You may need to wait a short time for the current to drop down to its final value.
     
  3. Mr_I_Want_More_MPG

    Mr_I_Want_More_MPG Junior Member

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    Did all as you said. Plugs look fine, gap ok, no water, good spark on all 4 . I think I smell gas. These days it doesn't smell like it used too. I think I hear the fuel pump running. Can't find my multimeter.
     
  4. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Time then, to tow the car to a Toyota dealer or independent qualified on Toyota hybrids. You've ruled out the obvious issues of ignition and fuel supply.
     
  5. Mr_I_Want_More_MPG

    Mr_I_Want_More_MPG Junior Member

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    My wallet is already starting to hurt. I'll post what I find out. Thanks for the help.
     
  6. yotatoter

    yotatoter Member

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    If you ran it on battery only for a little while you may have drained the hybrid battery... Does the car spinn over and "quote run for like 20 sec" and than shut off? or does it not spin at all? Keep us posted please..
     
  7. Mr_I_Want_More_MPG

    Mr_I_Want_More_MPG Junior Member

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    Spins over for 8-10 seconds then shudders and stops.I am getting it towed to a shop on Monday. I'll post the resolution
     
  8. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    Clue is p3101 and p3191. Clean throttle body, put key on (no start) clear codes or unhook 12v. Key off. Connect 12v, then try to start.
     
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  9. Mr_I_Want_More_MPG

    Mr_I_Want_More_MPG Junior Member

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    don't have p3101 code and I did all the other stuff already. what would drain the 12V relative to the hybrid system?
     
  10. Mr_I_Want_More_MPG

    Mr_I_Want_More_MPG Junior Member

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    Car finally got towed to a shop and they determined water in the fuel system.but now the main battery is supposedly discharged so it won't crank the ICE. Not sure if there were any codes at this point other than what I read previously. So the shop brought it to a Toyota dealer to charge the main battery. only they didn't tell them anything so the Toyota dealer called me and want a $119 diagnostic fee which I eventually relented to. The weird thing is they are telling me they don't charge main batteries? What gives? If a Toyota dealer can't charge a prius battery then what good are they and what good is a Prius? Apparently I got a bad batch of gas and it's looking bad right now. The main battery is 13 months old and the warranty was 12 months. They are waiting till the morning to see if the voltage climbs a bit in a heated garage to see if they can read some codes.
     
  11. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    Location:
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    Very few dealers charge Hybrid batteries, since they need a special (expensive) charger and usually the dealer has to special order a loan of the charger from corporate/regional headquarters. It's easier for them to sell you a new battery than try and charge yours, even though Gen1's have a relatively easy to access charge port.

    Where are you located?
    If you're near Boulder we have a Hybrid battery charger here, and a few shops around the country have them as well.

    A weak hybrid battery won't affect ability to read codes, but the 12V battery needs to be healthy to read the codes.

    If your Hybrid battery was new 13 months ago, it should come back to life with a charge.....I suggest you call Toyota corporate and ask for their help to make an exception on the warranty.
     
  12. Mr_I_Want_More_MPG

    Mr_I_Want_More_MPG Junior Member

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    Unfortunately I'm nowhere near you. I'm in Connecticut. I'll call around tomorrow. All the hybrid codes went away after I disconnected the 12V to try to "reboot". It seemed like the 12V was getting discharged overnight even after I charged it on a Battery Tender. The shop tried another 12V battery and still nothing. We'll see what they say tomorrow.
     
  13. Jeff F

    Jeff F Member

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    I had the same problem recently - water in fuel and a dead HV battery. See my earlier post here. I removed the HV battery and charged each module individually using two hobby chargers. At a charge rate of 5 amps, which is typical for these chargers, it takes a little over an hour per module, so plan on it taking a bit of time with one charger. I had my battery out for a couple of weeks because I did some additional discharge/charge cycles on the weaker modules to ensure a reasonably balanced pack. I have the original battery, and was pleased with my results. If yours is a year old you can probably do a singe charge cycle on each module, or a discharge to 6.0v followed by a charge, keeping track of the charge amounts to confirm no module/cell issues. There's lots of good discussion here and in the gen2 forum on the procedure.

    I thought about draining or replacing the tank, but have run a couple of tanks through adding fuel de-icer and seem to have solved for that.

    Jeff
     
  14. Mr_I_Want_More_MPG

    Mr_I_Want_More_MPG Junior Member

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    Toyota dealer says the battery is totally drained and they can't charge it. Then they called me back and said they have a few more things to try. We'll see on Monday probably. Does anybody know? Can somebody at Toyota charge a Prius battery? I'd rather not have to learn to do it myself.
     
  15. yotatoter

    yotatoter Member

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    If you have another prius that is running I could jump start it ,but I would rather not post my method on a public forum...FYI do not expect a lot of help from Toyota dealers.. They will probably tell you that it needs a new battery and that they tried everything...
     
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  16. Mr_I_Want_More_MPG

    Mr_I_Want_More_MPG Junior Member

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    I am pretty disappointed in the local Toyota dealer. They say they have NO way to charge it. I called the dealer in my town and they said they could. Toyota regional would have to come do it. Of course they still want to diagnose it for another $97 and didn't know how much it would cost. The first dealer is not charging me anything supposedly despite a lot of diagnostic work they did because they don't know what's wrong. They offered to keep diagnosing it if I pre-payed $900 - yeah -right!! I'm going to get the car back home and see how I can charge the battery. I might be done with hybrids. My car only averaged 38 mpg. Could most likely do that with a Corolla or Civic.
     
  17. Mr_I_Want_More_MPG

    Mr_I_Want_More_MPG Junior Member

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    Car is home. Toyota didn't charge me anything. My friends shop got me for $350 for 3 tows and few hours for diagnosing the water in the tank. I'll post if i get anywhere with it.
     
  18. Mr_I_Want_More_MPG

    Mr_I_Want_More_MPG Junior Member

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    Stopped by another Toyota dealer and they said it's possible to charge it. They were supposed to call me back with a price but they didn't. We did get a lot of snow. We'll see but I'm not holding my breath. Called a place about getting a battery charger but they seem overwhelmed and it may take a while. Driving my truck at 12-14 mpg.
     
  19. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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    Sorry to hear about your troubles. We will have the Grid Chargers for the 99-03 Prius released in about four weeks. We just need to finalize the HV battery fan drive circuit, everything else is done. Our Electrical Engineer is hard at work on this as I type. If you can wait that long, our charger will certainly charge you HV battery to full - and balance it - in a very safe and controlled manner for a very reasonable price.

    Here is a photo of some of the thermal testing we have done with the first generation Prius HV packs:
    [​IMG]

    Here is a thread with more info:
    Grid Charge HV Battery to Balance? | PriusChat
     
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  20. Mr_I_Want_More_MPG

    Mr_I_Want_More_MPG Junior Member

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    Couldn't wait any longer and ordered the Venice Hybrid Tech charger for $290 delivered. It was rather unimpressive looking but it WORKED!!!! Got my car started and have some hybrid codes - triangle and car with exclamation point but it RUNS!!! Need to scan it again.

     
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