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A Question for the Lawyers

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by zapranoth, Mar 2, 2006.

  1. zapranoth

    zapranoth New Member

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    Lawyers of the group, please tell me, is this legal?

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/02/catholic.town.ap/index.html

    To wit, Thomas Monaghan (a Catholic and founder of Domino's) is planning to build a town in which abortions aren't allowed, you can't buy porn or condoms, no birth control pills.

    (As a Christian, let me say that I'm stunned, and in no way want this whack job to be associated with Christianity as I know it.)

    He is planning to sell the homes to people outright, but will keep the commercial land and put wording in the leases to not allow the above "evil" activities.

    As a further detractor, Jeb Bush thought it's a great idea.

    So... is this going to fly, legally? Or is this guy gonna be shot down? Could someone who knows tell me what to expect, and why it's legal or not? (Assume I know nothing, including the wording of the Constitution, to make the discussion more complete.)
     
  2. KTPhil

    KTPhil Active Member

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    Not a chance. If he is in the US, he has to follow the first amendment and all the rest of the Constitution.

    Right wing nutjobs like this goon like to make grandstanding announcements in order to appeal to their own, then quietly fade away as reality shows their plans to be nonsense.
     
  3. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    Now wait a minute KTP....let's analyze this. Let's say I buy 10 sq miles of land. Now it is private property. I sell plots for homes and create "zoning" via , what is the word I want, oh, covenants. SO far this is all legal and done on a small scale all the time. No, these homes are private property and the owners can do whatever they want not prohibited by convenents.

    Now, I build or lease all the land in the "business" areas and write the lease agreements to prohibit certain types of businesses.

    So long as I don't accept federal or tax funding, I can do anything not illegal. Since it is NOT illegal to NOT have certain businesses, then tell me

    WHERE is the standing to say this person cannot do it?

    This is no different than a gated private community. And here is a little freedom for you...if you don't like it...don't live there.
     
  4. Allannde

    Allannde Just a Senior

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    The answer to this question is in the laws of the State of Florida. So long as all parties agree, there are no challenges. It is likely that sooner or later someone will break with the group and either the covenants will be enforced or there will be a suit to prevent the enforcement of the covenants and a Florida court will hear the question. The question is whether such a covenant is legal. It is possible that appeals could go as far as the U. S. Supreme Court but statistically unlikely.

    There is lots of room for opinions on one side or the other but when push comes to shove the courts are where the issue gets resolved.
     
  5. jbarnhart

    jbarnhart New Member

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    Don't forget, lots of communities used to have covenants that prevented homeowners from selling their properties to black families. Just because it's in a covenant doesn't make it legal. I predict this, too, will fall.
     
  6. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    Zap,

    Can you be more specific as to why this guy so offends you?

    Is he doing something offensive to your beliefs as a Christian, or assaulting you in another way?

    Are you one of those Christians that thinks (homosexuality, abortion and pornography) are just fine?

    I just want to know where you're coming from on this. I'm not Catholic, but I see this guy and his big wad of cash and say.. you go dude..

    I imagine anyone with enough money to do what that guy is doing also has enough lawyers to tell him that he has a shot at it, and enough lawyers to defend the suits once they start.

    If the guy is the owner of all the commercial property, I can certainly see how he can choose to lease or not lease office and commercial space to any company he wants or doesn't want to have a shop in the town.

    I'm not sure he could do much if Bob comes to the sales shop and buys a house and turns out to be gay and moves his gay buddy in the following week. I do see how it would be hard for planned parenthood (Abortion central) to get a lease for facilities in the town.

    If someone wants to make a gay town on the adjacent 10 sq miles, they shoudl go for it. They can exclude me if they want in legaleze.. or just figure that as a Christian, I wouldn't want to live in that town. Which makes me wonder... why would an abortion doctor want to set up a shop in downtown catholicville? Seems there wouldn't be a lot of business, or hopefully not. Shouldn't be a lot of use for pornography in town, so why set up a shop for that. Go find a moral sewer somewhere and build your shops there where they will thrive.

    Too many people with too many rights and no common sense enough to leave certain segments of the population to do their thing.
     
  7. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

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    Just a couple of thoughts:
    1) I'm surprised there is so much opposition to this plan. If you don't want to live there, don't. But look on the bright side . . . This plan will probably help keep “them†from living in “your†neighborhood. :lol:
    2) The town can pick and chose which cable TV company(s) they would give licenses to . . . but they can't prevent the reception of satellite TV and all its ungodly programing.
    3) Just like with “dry†counties in the South and Mid-West, you could always drive over the line and purchase all the booze, porn, condoms and birth control pills you want and bring them home for your swingers party. ;)
    4) The town sounds like an easy target for home robberies. Sunday mornings would be easy pickings while most everyone is attending church services. But, I feel sorry for the burglar who gets it wrong and enters an occupied house in that 'hood. Guaranteed most homeowners would be armed to the teeth. :eek:
    5) If you are jealous and wish to live in a town like this – but one which is the complete opposite – BUILD YOUR OWN! . . . or easier yet, just move to San Francisco, or any other ultra-liberal area. To help you in your search, please visit this web site (and as a consequence, maybe "you" won't move into "my" neighborhood. :p :lol: )
    http://www.epodunk.com/top10/liberal/
    (One word of caution about this web site. I think it needs some serious updating if Arcata, California doesn't even make the list. :rolleyes: For those of you who don't know, Arcata is the first, and probably the only city in America whose elected officials are predominantly from the Green Party.)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcata
     
  8. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    Because of the aforementioned Consitution. :) He might be able to buid a town with Monaghan's "vision" of how it should be and attract only the people that think and act as he does but once he starts trying to enforce it when people don't absolutely fit in he'll be spending a lot of time in court being told that he can't ignore the Constitution. Violating the Constitution is illegal. It's probable that the first Amendment would be the first one that Monaghan would attempt to violate:

    "Bill of Rights
    "Amendment I

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

    The gated community that you mention cannot be so gated that it is excempt from the Constitution. Monaghan will have to find a piece of land somewhere that is not part of the U.S. and form his own country to do what he wants to do.
     
  9. Spunky

    Spunky New Member

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    I'm not a lawyer but I think Monaghan will succeed in building his little version of "paradise" and can, through deligent law-crafting, control it for decades.

    I say that because of those wacky communes of extreme Mormons out in the West, who continue to pursue polygamy and take child-brides.

    A couple of references:
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4629320
    http://www.polygamy.com/Mormon/Polygamists...cial-Report.htm
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4629743
     
  10. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    Your statement would have considerable impact if you could show how the "wacky communes of extreme Mormons out in the West..." violate the Constitution.
     
  11. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    He's really got two problems: One is whether the covenants in the leases will stand up in court when they are challenged (and eventually they will be because even though the original owners will probably be in agreement, the next generation will not be -- who ever heard of children agreeing with their parents?); and the other is expansion: as development expands beyond the original site, there will be new land he does not own and therefore cannot control. Maybe he creates a town where these activities are prohibited, but if people can drive a mile to buy their porn and their porno and get their abortions, what have the prohibitions really accomplished?

    On the other hand, he may make a lot of money by selling homes at double their underlying value to people who he cons into believing his fairy tale of a "sinless" city.
     
  12. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    what a bunch of crap. but i say let all the right-wing nutjobs move there. then i don't have to deal with 'em.

    but that population is going to skyrocket quickly... :blink:
     
  13. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    :lol:

    Maybe it'll catch on, and will expand such that the libs will be forced onto reservations, and ultimately, man-made islands....
    :ph34r:
     
  14. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Yep. Just like how all those Native Americans were rounded up. Seemed like a good idea at the time ...

    Another reason to vote Libertarian
     
  15. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    :lol: I'm just taking pot shots at the libs... Truthfully, I don't have a problem them, or any other political party. Just the ones who are extremist, can't be reasoned with, believe any graph they're shown, and get angry when someone else's viewpoint can shatter a long held belief, that sort of thing... Oh wait, I think I just defined "Libs".... :lol:
     
  16. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    It's ironic that the cons are the ones who talk about violating the Constitution and are always so emotional.
     
  17. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Hmmm. Sounds like every Neocon I know of. Our Gov, right or wrong. Our Dubya, right or wrong. Etc.
     
  18. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    Oh, like the Constitution hasn't been "violated"? Yes, the documents we hold soooo dearly have been diluted so much, I actually wonder how meaningful they are now as oppesed to when they were composed, taking into account the "world" in both eras...

    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  19. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    When I was still living in Utah - and already well on the way to becoming a Libertarian - I had the following bumper stickers on my 4Runner:

    "U.S. Constitution: Void Where Prohibited By Law."
     
  20. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    neocon, lib, green party, independents, Dubya, makes no difference....