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Hymotion is dead. Do I have any hope for a fix?

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by snookums, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. snookums

    snookums Junior Member

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    Hi guys,

    Well, the dreaded day has arrived. My Hymotion L5 kit will not turn on. I was really hoping that it would fade away instead of going out with a (silent) bang.

    I was driving to pick up my mom from the airport when I noticed I was not getting any extra battery boost, and I checked the LED and saw it blinking. I parked, then counted 3 blinks; which I have had before and turned out to be the DC-to-DC converter. Though, it may have been 2-blinks... the way A123 setup those blink codes seemed strange to me if I remember correctly. The LED turned off three times.

    Now, the LED does not come on at all, but the pack does charge (draws up to 1,000W and tail-lights come on while charging too).

    Since A123 is no more, and my Green Chip dealer no longer has anything to do with Hymotion; is there any hope for fixing my pack?
    And if not, how do I remove 200lbs of "balast" from my Prius' trunk?

    Thanks in advance everyone.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    are you far from eric becky in wisconsin?
     
  3. snookums

    snookums Junior Member

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  4. ualdriver

    ualdriver Member

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    Bummer about the Hymotion pack. I'd send a PM to Eric and see if he could offer some advice. Very nice and helpful guy.

    There is a place that overhauls the pack. I think it's in Michigan.
     
  5. wb9k

    wb9k 09 Gen II Prius w Hymotion Plug-In Batt

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    Verify that it is indeed three blinks. The last blink is the one that is held long, so if you get two short blinks and a long one, that's three blinks.

    If it's the DC/DC, a new part in the latest rev can be had from Sybesma's Electronics in Holland MI. I can help coach you through the replacement if you think you're up to it. The pack would have to come out of the car and bottom cover removed to do the swap. It's not terribly difficult.
     
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  6. snookums

    snookums Junior Member

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    It was the 3-blink code then. I remember counting the last long-blink as one of the three.

    Is there someone at Sybesma that I need to speak with specifically, or will the general "inbox" get me to the right person?

    It's very kind of you to offer help guiding me in removing the pack to replace the part. How heavy is the pack, will I need an engine hoist or similar to remove it and put in on my bench? Where are the disconnects? Is it just the OBD2 bypasss harness and the orange high-voltage plug on the left-side?
     
  7. wb9k

    wb9k 09 Gen II Prius w Hymotion Plug-In Batt

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    The L5 weighs 188 lbs. A hoist is the best way to lift it out, but with straps/handles affixed to the cover, 2 or 3 individuals can work the pack out of there without too much agony. Several bolts, the rear brace brackets, the "bypass harness" as you call it, and the HV connections to the Prius' battery contactors all have to be removed/disconnected prior to removal of the pack from the car. The orange service disconnect on the side of the pack also has to come out. Probably the easiest way for you to know how to get the pack out is to read the installation guide, which I've hopefully managed to attach here. My management at A123 told me some time ago that they consider the Hymotion documentation to be public domain at this point, so here it is.

    Also attached is the PCM diagnostic troubleshooting guide. This covers all the "blink codes", tells what they mean, and gives quick checks as well as detailed troubleshooting instructions for each of them. This is probably the most important document for anyone trying to repair a nonfunctional pack.

    I see you're in Ontario. I'm in the NW Detroit 'burbs and would be willing to do the repair in my garage by appointment. Let me know if that interests you. I would charge a nominal fee, but my rates tend to be too "good" for my own good :) The general inbox at Sybesma's should work fine. You can tell them Duane sent you. If you find your DC/DC to be bad, you'll want to replace it with the HY-5 revision of the DC-DC, which is the final version. Sybesma's has lots of these and should have no problem getting one to you quickly. Have you ever had to replace the DC/DC before in this pack? If so, when?

    EDIT: OK, the files uploaded but I mistakenly uploaded the install manual twice. The "Service Manual" is the same doc, just ignore it. I tried deleting the extra attachment after the fact, but it doesn't seem to want to be removed.
     

    Attached Files:

    #7 wb9k, Jun 10, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
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  8. snookums

    snookums Junior Member

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    Wow, these PDFs are awesome wb9k, and so are you!

    Detroit is only a 4 hour drive from where I live, so I may take you up on your offer. I'm sure we can work out some kind of fair payment if it comes to that, and I'll even throw in a case of beer. ;)

    Skimming through the PCM Diagnostic Trouble Codes file, I can see a few things I can check before needing to remove the pack to asses the DC/DC converter. If my problem can be resolved by re-seating a plug, or replacing a fuse I will be much happier. It will likely be a "replace part" fix, but if not that would be grand.

    When I got the three-blink LED code the first time, I was told by my GreenChip dealer that the pack would have to be removed and sent to the US for servicing. It would be gone for a few weeks... or they could put a refurbished unit in my car next day. I took the refurb; probably shouldn't have, but the thought of being without my L5 was unappealing. This was a few years ago.
     
  9. wb9k

    wb9k 09 Gen II Prius w Hymotion Plug-In Batt

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    I'm sorry to hear that your second DC/DC failed. Hopefully it's an older rev. I've never seen an HY-5 fail. Lots of HY-3's and -4's, but never a -5. You can PM me if you want to pursue the repair here in MI. We can chat on the phone to discuss the best path.

    I have some vices, but drinking beer isn't one of them. We can select another...;-)
     
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  10. snookums

    snookums Junior Member

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    Yeah, I was told the refurb had the newer DC/DC part in it already. Might have just been a line fed to me to take the refurb off their hands. I guess we'll know soon enough.

    I'll PM you if I come up empty with my initial troubleshooting. I also have some nice cigars... :D
     
  11. snookums

    snookums Junior Member

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    Hi wb9k,

    This was father's day weekend, so I didn't get a chance to do everything I would have liked for testing, but I did read the manuals you posted more carefully, and I see I'm missing something; the software and diagnostic tool.

    I went back are re-read my first post about the 3-blink error with my first pack, and I noticed something. The LED kept doing the 3-blink code every time I turned it on. This time, it only happened once while I was on the road, and has been off ever since. I'm worried that something else might be wrong too, and I'd rather not buy the new DC/DC converter (I heard back from Hank at Sybesma's), then have it replaced only to not fix my pack.

    It would be nice to see if my pack is showing "state" 2 instead of 5/6. Even better would be to read the "fault_message".

    Do you know where I can get the diagnostic device/software if it's available (I tried google and came up empty). I have both a SacnGuageII and a bluetooth ODBII scanner. Best would be the definition where I can read these values out of the ODB2 myself. I am a software guy, familiar with 12-volt embedded systems and comfortable probing around the CANbus.

    Thanks again for all your help.
     
  12. wb9k

    wb9k 09 Gen II Prius w Hymotion Plug-In Batt

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    Hi Snook,

    I don't personally have a copy of the software setup. I just never got around to putting that together. Sybesma's has a working setup, I hope to make time to clone it at some point. I think one of the regular posters here has a setup as well. Maybe he could either post the code here (I think it's a LabView script), or help with the info you seek. I don't know the definition offhand, nor am I sure I can find it at this point, at least not without a long, tedious search. I can understand your reluctance to blindly replace the DC/DC. If you get inside the pack, I can tell you how to spot the most common failure mode in the DC/DC. It's pretty easy to spot if you get the bottom cover off the pack.
     
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  13. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Previously Hymotion was very insistent that they would not allow any servicing in the field.
    And this same line of thought continued even after the Green Chip dealers stopped servicing them.
     
  14. wb9k

    wb9k 09 Gen II Prius w Hymotion Plug-In Batt

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    Hi Eric,

    Nobody owns Hymotion anymore--nobody who cares, anyway. It's all in the public domain as far as A123 today is concerned.

    Could you help Snookums with the CAN definition he's looking for?
     
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  15. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    I'll check with my source. I made a promise and feel obligated until I hear otherwise. Darn ethics! :). Hopefully I can word to them that it is OK to release.
    Until then I'm stuck.
    Snookums contact me off list and we can talk more.
     
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  16. snookums

    snookums Junior Member

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    Thanks Eric, and curse your ethical ways! ;)

    My search thus far has been fruitless.
    I've found some obscure manual for an OBDII datalogger to help troubleshoot the L5, but no diagnostic software or config files. I also found most of the 2nd gen Prius service manual.
     
  17. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    I'm pretty sure I'll be able to make this software available.

    Once that is done we still will have our work cut out for us. I am working to encourage the keeper of the parts inventory to sell parts.

    I'll keep people in the loop on that, too.
     
  18. snookums

    snookums Junior Member

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    That's awesome news!
    I know it's not a solution, but all roads are not dead-ends anymore... hopefully.
     
  19. John Maben

    John Maben Junior Member

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    My L5 is also misbehaving. A few minutes ago I called the dealer that did the installation in 2008. (I paid a deposit for it less than 24 hrs after Hymotation announced production.)
     
  20. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    The dealers that installed do not receive any support from A123 on these. Let me know. I will help if I can.