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Do I need a new 12v battery?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by AJBC, Jun 27, 2014.

  1. AJBC

    AJBC Junior Member

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    Basically I've been having a few problems lately, and only recently have realized it may be due to a dieing battery. It's a 2007 Prius, and I bought it only seven months ago. I am not sure if the 12v has been replaced recently or at all, it's possible it hasn't.


    The symptoms are:
    1. If I put my hand on the door sensor, the car will make the "unlock" flash and beep between 3-10 times before it will actually unlock the door. If I keep pulling the handle after each beep it seems to continue beeping forever. I have to wait a few beeps for some reason without pulling in order for it to open.
    2. When I lock the door with the Smartkey, it makes two clicking noises, but no flash or beep. If I press the lock button on the door handle it self, it makes the noise and beep, but doesn't actually lock.
    3. The front passenger door doesn't lock at all.


    I was going to take it in to Toyota, but they told me it would cost $140 just to diagnose the problem, so I figured I would check the battery first.
    What I've been told, and this is an Australian model so I don't know if it's any different, but that the battery needs to be:
    Power button pushed once - should be around 12.0v
    Power button pushed a second time, all the accesories on - should stay above 12.0v and not drop
    Power button with brake, to turn on the engine - should jump to 14.0v+ straight away

    What happens with my battery, and I tried this 3 -4 times after I hadn't driven it for a couple of hours.
    Power button once - 9.5-10.2v
    Power button again - immediately drops .3-.4 volts, but doesn't seem to go much lower than 9.5.
    Engine On - immediately jumps to 14.0v to 14.8v.


    Hoping for someone to correct me if I am wrong, but does this mean that:
    A. the 12v battery may be dieing, and
    B. there isn't a problem more serious than the battery dieing, as it has no problem charging the battery to 14.0v with the engine on.

    Thanks very much
     
  2. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    If you were in the US, I would recommend one of the following:

    Optima DS46B24R Optima battery direct fit replacement for Prius 2004 + , Prius v & Plug-in Prius with Instructions has detailed instructions

    Exide AGM Car Battery (Group S46B24R)

    List: Battery - Automotive - 2010 Toyota Prius | O'Reilly Auto Parts

    I do not know my Australian retailers, but I would think S46B24R is still the buzzword for the battery you want.

    It should be an externally vented AGM battery with JIS posts, although adapters exist for SAE posts.

    http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/elearnaid_2271_490138
     
    #2 JimboPalmer, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Yes, the 12V battery needs to be immediately replaced. After that is done your car should behave normally again.
     
  4. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Active Member

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    Except maybe for checking the main cable connections at the battery, no further testing is required as the numbers you are seeing clearly shows a failing battery. I'm surprised that the car still runs at all.

    I'm not sure about the standard test voltages that you quoted but your numbers are WAY low.

    If it will make you feel better, find a place that sells new batteries that fit your model (an AGM type is highly recommended) and then ask them to test your old one before replacement. It should fail the test miserably.
     
  5. AJBC

    AJBC Junior Member

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    Great, thanks guys, it's good to know the problem with my smart key is most likely just the battery.
    I guess it still runs because the car has no problem charging it up to 14v when the engine goes on?

    EDIT: Just another point. I had it serviced a month ago at Toyota for a 90,000km service. Shouldn't they have picked up on the dieing battery then? Could it really have degraded that much within a month?
     
    #5 AJBC, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  6. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Since the computers test the car before it is READY, all tests are done using the 12 volt battery. So there are no tests OF the 12 volt battery. The techs just look for errors in the tests. They will almost never diagnose a 12 volt battery issue. (before we realized this, a lot of issues went unresolved, then when we did, we tended to over diagnose 12 volt issues. I thinks we have a better balance now)
     
  7. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    The car is throwing the big red exclamation point on the dash when you make the car ready too. Its the only warning you get the battery is dead.

    And yes when my original battery stated to failed it went rather fast within 2 months.

    How many times have you had to jump start the car?
     
  8. AJBC

    AJBC Junior Member

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    I've never had to jump start it. As I said it charges fine to 14.0v when I start the engine, it just when the MFD is on, and then when there is a load that it consistently stays well below 12.0v.

    Does that still indicate that it's dieing? I've booked it in to get the battery replaced and told them not to diagnose the locking issue as that will cost $140 just for that, and I have a feeling it may all be related to the battery.
     
  9. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Active Member

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    Sort of. What you are measuring while the car is running is the charging system voltage, NOT the battery voltage.

    One sign of a weak battery is a rapid voltage drop to below the nominal 12.6-12.8 volts after the car is turned off.......and it stays down there.

    And shops typically don't check 12 V batteries.......in any vehicle.
    You would think they would wise up and start checking all the hybrids that come in.
    After all, they stand to make a few bucks on the deal.
     
  10. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Your very stubborn lol.

    Yes as Pat posted you need to replace that battery asap. Only measurement that really is important is the load measurement as thats when the car requires that batteries participation. Its measuring very dead. Your first post measurements are ridiculously low and surprised the car boots. Next step is it will leave you somewhere. Be very very careful if you have to jumpstart this car.
    Hundreds of posts where people have damaged the car to $4000 worth of electrical damage. Its the car's achilles heel.

    Replace now.
     
  11. AJBC

    AJBC Junior Member

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    I am not stubborn I'm trying to be completely certain I want them to replace it. The way he asked if I've had to jump start it implied a dieing battery would have needed to be jump started by now.

    They aren't going to check if I tell them to replace it straight up so I need to be sure. I've already forked out $2500 in two services in just seven months so it think it's reasonable for me to want to be sure before forking out another $300.

    I've booked it in for a weeks time. Thank you for the help everyone
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if it makes you feel any better, a 7 year old battery will need to be replaced sooner than later. it will be money well spent to do it now, rather than after you've broken down on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere. all the best!(y)
     
  13. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Wow....$2500. Understandable to make sure. In the meantime try to find a decent mechanic other than the dealer as about 75% that the car needs is just basic maintenance and my dealer here gets $125 an hour. My mechanic is $75 but at least I get to talk to the guy and tell him whats going on directly. Ask around for a good local guy.


    What did the dealer do for $2500 please?
     
  14. AJBC

    AJBC Junior Member

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    Wasn't anything crazy, apart from an air conditioning filter change or something but that wasn't very expensive.
    Basically it was an 80,000km service which was considered a "major" service and was expensive in itself. The leather on the interior wasn't in a good state from the previous owner so I also had it detailed, as well as the outside where they managed to fix a few scratches.
    Then a 90,000km service along with a full set of new tires (kind of nice they are all in sync I guess), and new brake pads and discs for the front of the car.

    I have no doubt I paid way too much for it all at the official dealer, but I just figured because it's kind of a niche car that an average joe dealer might not be able to "converse" with the car as well.

    I suppose there could have been worse problems. I did get the car very cheap considering it's an i-tech, and the low kms for a car of its age.

    It's not that I'm suprised the battery is dieing, it's that I'm not sure how old the battery is, it may or may not be the original.
     
  15. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Well if you care, then take the battery out and look at it. The original battery is made by GS Yuasa and has a date sticker on top (hidden by the battery bracket) in DDMMYY format. And if you are able to take the battery out yourself then you can replace it yourself and save the dealer labor charge.

    Regarding the 80K km and 90K km services costing $2,500, that sounds like an extreme overcharge situation since the service primarily consists of inspections. In the US, new tires would be ~$500 while the front brake job would be ~$500 (in USD). It is also unclear why a front brake job was even needed at 90K km (which is 54K miles) unless the front discs were extremely rusted due to lack of use.
     
    #15 Patrick Wong, Jun 29, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i guess someone from down under would have to chime in here. perhaps it's just more expensive than u.s.?
     
  17. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    It is certainly possible that auto repair prices in Australia are higher than in the US. Regardless, the OP's car needs a new battery and that need will not change just because the OP may have recently paid an excessive amount for service.

    Maybe the high repair prices will motivate the OP to learn to DIY.
     
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  18. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Right now $1AUD = $0.94USD
     
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  19. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    That's not a bad conversion.