Is the U.S. bankrupt?

Dude, you can't compare Canada to the US... It does serve as a neat perspective, but we're talking 'economies of scale' here...

Ah well, I fully admit to not being concerned in the least about public debt. Primarily based upon the theoretical concept the U.S. will never throw its arms up and claim "bankruptcy", for as we all know, that would be, effectively, the end of this great empire.

 

Yeah, they should AT LEAST, put their money where their mouth is, like jayman, and head off to a place they believe is better.

Like those hollywood idiots that said they would leave the country if Bush won a second term...

The U.S. has given me so much, such a good life, that I will stand beside her no matter what she does. Lots of people seem to take for granted what exactly they have and why. If the U.S. is going down, I'm going down with it, SWINGING.

 

Your right.. thats a very serious issue that they are afraid to discuss and talk about.
Right now if you want to buy oil anywhere in the world.. you will have to do it with US dollars... if they switch to Euros.. it will devalue the dollar and open up a market independent from the muscle of US dollars... it could be a sad day for the US.

They truly hate us to the bone and want to demonstrate independence from any US influence.

The economic impact of that alone could be devastating.

 

It's extremely rare that any country claims bankruptcy. What happens instead is that when foreign debt gets out of control and the foreign debt-holders finally pull their money out, the value of the local money falls -- sometimes drastically. You get inflation, or in severe cases hyper-inflation, and the local economy collapses as people and businesses become more concerned with preserving the value of their capital than with production.

The numbers right now are bad, but not yet disastrous. Our economy is still strong enough, productive enough, and trusted enough to keep going. The problem is the trend: We are borrowing too much, to finance current expenses, and we are not saving enough.

A person who borrows to buy a house has acquired a useful long-term asset. She now does not have to pay rent for housing, and the house will last for many years. A business that borrows to build a factory has acquired a productive asset which will create value for many years, generating the money that will pay off the debt. But a person who borrows to take a vacation must now pay off that debt from other sourses of revenue, and if he runs this kind of debt up high enough he won't have enough income to pay it off. That's what our country is presently doing: The U.S. government is borrowing money to give tax-breaks to the wealthy and finance non-productive wars, and if this trend continues long enough, the foreign debt can potentially grow so large that foreign countries will no longer be willing to finance us, and the value of the dollar will go into a spiral.

A low but steady inflation rate is essential to the healthy functioning of the economy. When inflation gets out of control, production falls. When production falls, tax revenues decline and accelerate the downward spiral.

That (and not actual declared bankruptcy) is the risk of the present policy of meeting current expenses by foreign borrowing.

 

Why is Canada's debt so high? I thought your pop. was about 20 million. Where are they spending so much money?

 

According to CIA Canada's population is 32,805,041 (July 2005 est)

CIA

 

approximatly 34 Million, and why is the debt so high? borrrow and spend by previous goverments. We have been on an active "pay down the debt" campaign for about 12 years now and it's down considerably but still higher than it has any right to be. It was fine when you could borrow money on the international market at 2-5% but after about the mid 50's that started to climb, but the dumb a** is charge of the country kept borrowing and were now paying big time to get it under control. When the US realizes what the foreign borrowing is really costing, I don't think the people are going to like the cure. But like us you Will have to eventually pay off your debt.

 

Borrow & spend on what? Don't you all pay taxes? Is Canada giving money away to other countries like the dumb US? How could your leaders have squandered so much money? Last I heard your country wasn't financing "war of the year" like the US.

 

ya they borrow and then give it away. Then they figured that we were the suckers to watch over the UN's "peace keeper" needs, then a Navy, such as it is, then and Air Force, ya ya think 1/10 the population of the US and were expected to send money to every rinky dink little dictatorship, the list goes on and on and the country still doesn't have one single 4 lane hiway across it. I've given up trying to figure out the national debt as a percentage of GDP, all it ever used to do is drive up my blood pressure. All I really know is when my pensions are all gone I'll be in prison where I'll get 3 meals a day and free medical. Yup free medical payed for by the taxpayer, well the goverment will borrow the money to pay for it, and take it as tax from the working stiffs. Probably just like they do in the US. But at least you have the interstate hiway system. Were still stuck with a 2 lane cow path.

 

Well good for you, get 5 more credit cards and spend yourself to happiness.

I rather doubt the U.S. would ever declare bankruptcy per se, but the *cost* to borrow is going up. Eventually the interest payments take the major chunk out of your budget. Just like a lot of households now, their finance payments are the biggest slice out of their salary.

IMHO it's already the end "of this great empire." Once the NeoCon fascists took over, the end was in sight.

 

According to the CIA The public debt of Canada is 68.2% of GDP and in the US the public debt is 64.7% of GDP.

Canada
USA

Pretty close.

I do love my freeways but I also would like to see more in terms of health care. Or maybe we could just give more tax breaks to the rich.

 

Daniel:

There are many examples of hyperinflation and economic/banking collapse in Central and South American countries. Everybody panics for awhile, but life goes on.

Of course, life goes on with drastically reduced expectations

j

 

I had no idea you don't have any large highways. I have heard freedom of speech is very limited. Perhaps that's why I've never visited Canad. Not that ther'e any real freedom of speech here in the US. We also can boast about how many prisoners we have in the system More than any other country.

I wish they'd legalize marijuana. That would empty quite a few prisons as many poor saps are in there for merely possesing weed. I guess the world is in very sorry nice person shape. Humans just can't do anything right. Money is the root of all evil along with the power trip.

 

For the same reason the debt is so high in Japan and the United States and other countries: governments got elected based on wild costly promises, and the Sheeple only wanted those wild promises, with no consideration given to the cost of them.

Here in Canada, the largest acceleration of public debt occured with dramatic expansion of AECL (Atomic Energy Canada Ltd, a secretive Crown company), some social spending, and a lot of foreign boondoggles.

As an example, Industry Canada, and EDC (Export Development Canada), have sunk slightly over $100 bil Cdn on corporate welfare and hopeless foreign investments. Have a look at this year-by-year summary from The Canadian Taxpayer Federation, which I am a member of:

http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Federal_Revenu...947_to_2006.pdf

The political party most responsible for this boondoogle was the Liberal Party under Pierre Elliot Trudeau.

Of concern recently is despite record-setting government surpluses - and huge reserves in CPP and EI (Canadian Pension Plan and Employment Insurance) - not enough is being done to pay down the debt. It's highly unlikely current PM Harper will pull a Dubya and cut a check to Canadians to erase the surplus.

We've seen how disasterous that approach can be.

Actually, Japan has a far higher debt load than either the U.S. or Canada, something like 150% of GDP. Although our member Malorn appears to think Japan somehow owns the United States, actually China does. Japan is creaking along under crippling debt and an aging population that will be sure to further add to the debt.

 

Frank:

Now you couldn't be referring to yours and mine favorite all-time a** PM Pierre Elliot Trudeau, could you??

Nah.

It's really ironic how that man not only almost flushed Canada down the crapper with all the debt, but damn near broke up the country with all the bad feelings about Quebec.

His son is still at the bottom of that lake, correct?

j

 

Yes, the debt-to-GDP is very close. Thank you for citing the CIA World Fact Book, the neocon's here can't argue with it.

At first, a lot of the American debt was for things like infrastructure - Highway Act, etc - and defense spending, like the Cold War. Now it's for boondoogles and debt payments.

In Canada most of the initial debt spending was for social programs like public health. Then Trudeau got into foreign giveaways and Corporate Welfare. Ever hear of Bombardier? That's the best example. Plus a steel mill in Atlantic Canada that received over $1 billion taxpayer dollars, still went under, and now has a large toxic tar pond that nobody is willing to clean up.

Presently, the debt-to-GDP is shrinking at a high pace in Canada. Not fast enough for my tastes, but it's shrinking. OTOH the debt-to-GDP is running away in the U.S.

When I left in '98, with the Dot Com thing in full swing, I honestly had wondered if I had made a terrible mistake. True, I really cleaned up due to the currency conversion, but I wondered if I had shot my career in the foot.

After the Dot Com crash, then the Iraq war bullsh**, I no longer question what I did. A lot of Canadians I knew living in SLC and Santa Rosa, CA, have moved back to Canada in recent years.

 

And as I've stated before, and I'm sure you've proven, the War On Drugs is a big sham. It's a lie, pure and simple. Elements of the CIA and DEA actually sell the drugs, then tell us "Just Say No."

I have no problem with somebody ruining their life on narcotics, cirossis of the liver, whatever. Just don't expect me to pay one penny for it. If you find an OD on the street, tag and bag. Don't pump them full of Narcan and bring them back to life.

 

after looking at the CIA's information the biggest danger is the "average median age and the birth rate" of both Canada and the US. It's the younger generation that is going to get stuck paying for the current fiscal "disaster" You can't afford something if you don't have the money to pay for it. Simple advise.

 

Jayman thanks for pissing me off this early in the morning with that AECL stuff. Build the damn things for other country's and then forgive their "debt payments" F'n PET