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Low oil horror story

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by jqmello, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I don't think there is a low oil light, just low oil pressure?
     
  2. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    I had a mechanical gauge in an '85 300D. Since it is basically a small tube that is run to the instrument cluster on the dash, I didn't realize that oil is going to the gauge. I didn't tighten it well, and it was leaking while I was teaching my wife to drive. Oil pressure goes down as the oil leaks out. I'm stumped as to why the low pressure light doesn't illuminate any sooner. I could see it on the gauge as oil pressure wouldn't go up to the maximum any longer, and my wife noticed a slipperyness under her feet.

    SCH-R530M ?
     
  3. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    No oil level light in prius. Only no oil pressure light.

    Sorry, didn't see the post above stating the same.
     
  4. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    I encountered the same thing and concluded that the onset for the low oil pressure light was set extremely low, something on the order of 5-10 psi. Having oil pressure that low would only be triggered either (1) when the oil level was almost totally exhausted and air + oil is coming into the oil pump intake, (2) when the oil had completely de-polymerized into 0-weight sludge, or (3) when the main bearings in the engine were failing catastrophically , all of which conditions I personally experienced. The first case resulted in increased oil consumption, but the latter two cases resulted in blown engines. After those experiences I installed oil pressure gauges in the cars that did not have them as OEM equipment.
    "Too soon old, too late smart!"
     
  5. jqmello

    jqmello Junior Member

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    Finally an update:
    I kept checking the dipstick over 3,000 miles; F or just under the entire time. I changed early to get back on schedule and because the low previous oil level. Changing the oil this time I'm 3/4 quarts low, but not noticeably low on the dipstick. Oil was pretty black. Towards the bottom of pouring into the used can I could see fine glitter. Aluminum, I think? Nothing's sticking to the drain plug so it's probably not ferrous.
    Things that could be wearing out and causing 1) oil burn and 2) metal particles in oil are??
    piston ring / cylinder scoring (fascinating discussion earlier)
    bearings, and oil consumption unrelated?

    This looks like it might be heading for an engine rebuild when it gets a little worse? With my other cars I can sort of tell how the engine is running at idle and under load, but it's a bit harder with the Prius because of how it uses the engine. Whatever it is hasn't caused enough trouble for codes to be thrown, oil pressure light, etc.
     
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    What is the color of the glitter? If yellowish that may be coming from the bearings starting to wear out.
    Do you have a special magnetized drain plug? If it is original equipment, it is not magnetized.
    An engine rebuild will be quite expensive. It would be less costly to find and install a used engine from a lower mileage wrecked Prius.
    How can the oil level be 3/4 quart low and not "noticeably low" on the dipstick? Those two observations contradict each other. The dipstick oil level should be ~1/2" down from the top dimple.
    You will be able to log many more miles with the engine in this condition as long as you continue to check engine oil level and replenish it as necessary, assuming that you are able to read the correct engine oil level from the dipstick.
     
  7. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    The pistons are an aluminum-silicon alloy. Could be that one or more of them had been shedding metal due to your low oil level incident.
     
  8. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    Um, maybe you should take a strong magnet and drag it thru that oil to double check the metal is not ferrous? Consider also cutting open your old, just-changed oil filter and really carefully examining what kind of particles may have been caught by the old filter.

    But to be frank, the cars I owned where I have found noticeable metal particles have usually had engine failure within a year or so, thus you might want to avoid long trips until you get it all sorted out. Would also suggest installing an old fashioned analog oil pressure gauge if that is possible on your Prius because you can compare the current oil psi to the factory spec for the engine AND carefully watch the gauge for any sign of gradual loss of oil pressure as your bearings wear out. That gives at least some time to schedule the replacement engine.

    (The oil pressure warning light is set to trigger only at low, near-zero oil pressures in most cars and thus does not give much advance warning of failure, more like a note that "your engine is failing NOW".)
     
  9. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    Metal particles is bad news, but to be honest, if you change the oil outdoors and look at used oil drain pan in direct sunlight, you will find some very fine glittering particles even in healthy engines. Some of that could be even coming from aluminum drain plug washers I use. But, it one sees them easily without trying, that's bad.
     
  10. jqmello

    jqmello Junior Member

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    Thanks for the responses...
    The oil level may have dropped a fraction of an inch on the dipstick, from right under the top dimple to maybe a quarter inch at most down. I don't have any level place to park while I change the oil (outside) so thought it would be that. To measure I poured back into the quart bottles I poured out of. These apparently can get a bit more than a quart in them, and it's hard not to fill it right up to the bottom of the funnel. So, maybe not entirely 3/4 quart low? It was a rough measure, not like pouring into a measuring cup first.
    For some reason I thought the OEM drain plug was magnetic. In that case i don't know what the filings were. The filings weren't all that noticeable, and only at the bottom of the oil, not really suspended.
    I'll keep an eye on it, and cross my fingers. There is an auto parts recycler that advertises on eBay, with engines from $200-$750. Anywhere from 20,000 - 150,000 miles. A shop around the corner specializes in Jasper rebuilts. They'd probably install a junkyard engine. We'll keep it close and keep changing the oil until it gives up on us, then do some transplant surgery.
     
  11. CBarr31

    CBarr31 Active Member

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    I find this VERY INTERESTING and never thought of ethanol as a cleaner but duh that is what it is designed to do. I posted in some other oil burning threads that Ema was using about 1q/1,500 miles and then I made the switch to pure E0 gas. After the switch Ema's oil consumption went to 1q/3,000 miles!!!

    I actually had someone post that I was measuring it wrong, LOL. Really? I mean seriously you are adding a certain amount of oil after a certain number of miles it isn't differential equations or theory of math level stuff, LOL.

    Happy driving,
    Chris
     
  12. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    Isn't it d(oil)/d(mile) where d(mile) = 2 x radius(tire) x pi x Sum (tire revolutions) / (5280 x 12) ?
    Maybe is IS rocket science!

    Thanks for that tidbit about E0 and oil consumption. Has anyone else experienced that effect? I have used E0 on some of our trips trips but our Prius does not use oil so I cannot see any such effect. Others?
    I have used molybdenum disulfide in manual transmissions on 3 very old cars and it helped a LOT for ease of shifting. But have not used it on any Engines partly due to concern the stuff would clog the oil filter. Anyone else try MoS2 in a Prius engine?
     
  13. goldfinger

    goldfinger Active Member

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    I agree. The first oil change is the most important. Did mine at 3k. The dealer complained it wasn't necessary.
     
  14. jqmello

    jqmello Junior Member

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    So I just went on a 2000 mile road trip with three people, camping gear, and two kayaks.
    At 1200 miles (3200 miles since last oil change) the oil was 1/2" above the lower dot on the dipstick. I added a quart, and it's back up at the top.

    Another week or so and I'll give you all the 180,000 mile oil consumption numbers.
     
    #34 jqmello, Sep 8, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
  15. cdltpx

    cdltpx Junior Member

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    When I go on a long trip I change the oil on the other end of the trip even if it is before the 5K change time. But to keep it simple I change the oil on the 5 and the 0. 5,10,15,20... If I smell the oil and don't like it or the way it looks I change it. Very cheap to DIY. If you notice your MPG suffer slightly you might need an oil change I have noticed that to be a good indicator.
     
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  16. cdltpx

    cdltpx Junior Member

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    I towed a trailer from Ga to Louisiana had a terrible head wind the entire trip. I was nearly home and red light came on car threatened to shut down I pressed on 5 miles to home. Got home it was low on oil so the car does have a safety feature that will shut down the system should you run it too low. I changed the oil right after that. I got 20 mpg towing a 8x10 cargo trailer empty. I don't recommend towing with prius but for in town stuff the long trips rent a truck.
     
  17. jqmello

    jqmello Junior Member

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    Yeah... changing the oil directly after a trip would probably be best practice, I figure it's 1/4 new anyway, and only another week or so with my wife's work taking her all over MD this week. I definitely kept checking the dipstick, after knowing that this is not a perfect set-and-forget sealed box, like it sometimes seems.
    About the mileage - we averaged only 30-33 mpg on this trip, one tank was as low as 25 mpg. That's an 80lb kayak, a 50lb kayak, and a 25lb roof rack on top of the car, plus probably 200 lb of gear inside and three people... close to the payload limit, but worthwhile for getting kayaks to places that don't really rent them, or if you actually use them a lot. If I use 30 instead of 42 (loaded highway mileage) it comes down to about a $70 premium for hauling the kayaks 2000 miles. Avg gas this trip was $3.50... except in Canada, where they have about $.28/L tax!

    We removed the kayaks and gear but not the rack and mileage jumped back up to 45, we usually average 48-50.
    Coming up I'm planning a good check of level first, accurate measure of oil removed, and dissection of oil filter at the next interval.
     
  18. jqmello

    jqmello Junior Member

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    Another week, another story. Last tank of gas averaged around 54 mpg.
    Interval: 175k - 180k . Added 1 quart ~ halfway, dipstick about halfway between pips. Checked dipstick before change, ~ 3/8" down. Drained 3 quarts out of engine, added 3.9 quarts back in.
    So: over 5,000 miles we lost 1.9 quarts of oil... it seems like pretty serious consumption for such a small engine. I put some oil additive in that is supposed to stop ring leaks. We will see if it helps. There were some flecks of aluminum in the oil this time when I drained it, about the same as last time. A few little glitter specks... and a few 'large-ish' chunks that 'pocked' the oil on the bottom of the pan. I dragged a magnet through it to check for iron... so it's definitely aluminum.
    I saved the filter this time but haven't cut it open yet to see what's inside.
     
  19. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I would say this oil consumption is reasonably normal considering the odometer reading. Certainly you cannot expect your engine to behave as if it were new. 20 years ago most cars would end up in the junkyard long before reaching 180K miles.

    As another data point my 2004 with 182K miles is burning 5W-30 full synthetic oil at the rate of 1.7 quarts per 5K miles. The drained oil does not have any obvious metal content, though.

    Since your fuel economy is good and as long as your car doesn't emit visible exhaust, just check the oil periodically, add as needed, and you will be good.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i agree with patrick, have you considered looking around for a low mileage engine replacement?