Big Hybrids not selling

in Feb or March 2006, RX400h was quoted by CNN to be one of the most wanted cars in the USA with 32 day average (and most expensive car on top 10 list). LOL. RX330 is being phased out and new model RX350 is being introduced, hence lower selling times.

Sell times for both HH and RX at around 30 days sitting average is pretty good actually, when industry accepted "good" is 60 days.

There is only one Prius which you simply have to wait for. Judging by those standards, 99% of cars on road today are "not selling"

Its news about having to create news.

 

I don't see the big surprise here.

SUVs sell to selfish and/or ignorant people who are concerned primarily with image and don't care about safety, efficiency or their impact on anyone else. That kind of person isn't going to care about a hybrid even if there's no price premium, particularly not if it looks like any other SUV.

 

A prius with half the ICE displacement as they currently have could
*easily* do well north of 100 mpg. The engine would find itself
running efficiently way more often. The really difficult part is
the social education that would need to go along with that kind
of trend in general.
.
_H*

 

The Highlander Hybrid is too expensive. Where is the RAV4 Hybrid?! A RAV4 hybrid seems the next logical step after the RAV4 EV.

 

Gee, when will we see the Hummer Hybrid... getting an amazing 13 MPG city/13.5MPG HWY??? :lol:

 

This is hard for me to believe. A year ago I ordered a Lexus RX 400h. It was projected that I would have a 3 year wait. Within 2 months it was down to 7 months. Then deliveries began and real world gas consumption reports began. I hesitated, then canceled my order to place one for a Prius (same dealer). Now 400hs sit on the lot. I couldn't be happier. It is clear to me that the Prius is where it is at for Hybrids!

 

I can easily see many of the small cars being offered as hybrids, as well as some of the smaller pickup trucks even. But somehow a big ol' SUV running on batteries just doesn't make any kind of sense, monetary or ecological.

 

"But somehow a big ol' SUV running on batteries just doesn't make any kind of sense, monetary or ecological."

Don't tell GM that. Their "2-mode" system is going in the big SUVs. Can they be any more clueless?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ Mar 28 2006, 05:00 PM) [snapback]231539[/snapback]</div>

GM is doing this in their biggest vehicles, because its what they have now. Elsewhere on this site you will find information regarding GM Hybrid busses. The GM large SUV hybrids are probably a spin-off of those development efforts.

 

By whatever means accomplished, converting a 10 mpg vehicle to 15 mpg will save the average driver $1000/yr. This is a much larger dollar savings than going from a 25 mpg sedan to a 45 mpg Prius. As the larger vehicles are still popular, let us hope that their mpg is increased ASAP.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Mar 24 2006, 12:13 AM) [snapback]229424[/snapback]</div>

We have the 1st gen Odyssey and it gets around fine with 4 cylinders. A few summers ago we had 7 persons + luggage and went on a trip that included a ride back and forth over the Cascades. Once we were on the east side the A/C was on full time. A lot of driving was at 70 mph. The car was fine over the passes and the roundtrip mileage was 29mpg. It proved to us that a 4 cyl can do great with a properly geared transmission and differential.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tochatihu @ Mar 29 2006, 07:25 PM) [snapback]231903[/snapback]</div>

My concern is not just the fuel/gas/money savings. The pollution from a 15 MPG vehicle is larger than for a 45 MPG vehicle.

I know it's hard for many to do the right thing (always costs more up front) for a cleaner-air future when $3 gas is looming, but what is GM doing about getting off SUVs? I feel selling them as fuel-efficient at less than 20 MPG is wrong and bad business. Yes, I know Toyota does the same, touting a larger Rav4, bigger Tundra etc. I feel the difference is Toyota's green side is MUCH better than ANYTHING the domestics have right now.

It's taken just about too long, but green is in, leaving GM in the smog...

 

The reason the big SUV hybrids are not selling, is because they are building and marketing them all wrong! Stay with me here, this is going to be a LONG response.

So we should all agree that efficiency gain really translated to a reduction in gasoline used. For instance, I consider the Matrix/Vibe to be the closest competitor to the Prius. Smallish midsize, with a hatchback. If the Prius didn't exist, I most likely would have purchased a Vibe/Matrix. Also the Vibe/Matrix is in the greenbook's top ten list of cleanest vehicles on the road.

So in real world driving, my neighbor who owns a manual transmission Matrix gets about 33 MPG. My Prius is averaging about 46-47 MPG, for a gain of 40%. Not too shabby. If I drive 15000 miles a year, which is a reasonable number, that translates to 325 LESS gallons of gasoline that I would if I was driving the Vibe. At $2.50 per gallon, this saves me $812 a year.

If we fix the exact saving of gasoline, 325 gallons less then a comperable non-hybrid version to the Ford Explorer, we need a considerably lower efficiency gain to match the reduction in gasoline used. According to Edmunds, the V6 2WD version of the explorer gets a combined cycle 18 MPG. In order to save 325 gallons of gasoline a year, and efficiency gain of only 12.5% is needed! Heck probably all you would need is variable volume displacement, and an idle stop process, similar to the Saturn Vue, and you are right there! This can be done at considerably less cost then implementing a full hybrid system

Now from the marketing aspect of this, Ford could make some type of statement like "The Hybrid Explorer will save you the same amount of gasoline as the Prius will". Since the addition of a mild hybrid system may only cost $1600, Ford can make a reasonable claim tha the payback time is approximatley 2 years, and that after that you are saving money!

That is how you sell hybrid SUV's! NOT by adding $6000 to the price of a standard one. Sell 'em as a powertrain option, one that adds minimal cost, and you will be getting more and more people to save more and more gasoline.

Just my two cents, which is darned near always right.

Cosmo

 

Cosmo.

GM is already doing that with the Saturn VUE Greenline. I hope they succeed. We need Toyota to step up and reduce the price of their hybrid system... and hope they introduce plugin to anti-up the car war.

GM's variable cylinder Tahoe's mpg is getting close to some v8 cars now. You got to give them props for having the best mpg for the type of SUV. Toyota's full size SUVs mpg stink like there is no tomorrow.

 

2007 Tahoe combined MPG 4 X 4 (with the active fuel management, formerly known as Displacement on Demand): 18
2006 Sequoia combined MPG: 16

To me, both these numbers are appalling, unless you're using that V8. I see way too many single occupant low-MPG vehicles NOT towing anything at the grocery store. Yes, they have a purpose, it's just not what is marketed...

Question is, will the "2-mode" GM hybrid system get better MPG than HSD in Toyota trucks?

 

Hmmm, I wonder when the auto makers are going to realize that more expencive doesnt = better. With rising fuel costs and vehicles costing more, and we the public not all but most are having to watch our money & are not going to pay the high prices for a SUV..... It only seems like yesterday when we could buy a 10-15 year old car with 100,000 miles on it for $600.00 dollars.....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ Mar 30 2006, 03:26 PM) [snapback]232613[/snapback]</div>

I know what you mean. But any improvement is better than nothing.

As for the GM "2-mode" hybrid.... stay tune. From what EPA is saying, it sounds better than without it. So 20% improvement will help to prolong our adiction on gas.

We complain about EPA not upping the CAFE averages. Well, GM is doing it in small parts at least now. Unfortunely, it is not their decision to go this route to begin with. It is the customers turning away from their products in FE that caused them to at it seriously.