1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Cheap DIY plug in system? decide to go with e-trailer

Discussion in 'Prius c Accessories and Modifications' started by formula, Oct 17, 2014.

Page 2 of 2
  1. formula

    formula Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    320
    32
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    Thank you so much for your advise. after reading your reply. I think I will switch to LiFePO4 Batteries. still looking for some good review batteries.

    this one is the best one I found for now.

    LiFePO4 38120P (M size) Cell: 3.2V 10 Ah, 100A Surge Rate, 32Wh - UN38.3 Passed (DGR)

    the price is about $16.65-$18 each .

    5 to 20$17.95
    21 to 50$17.58
    51 to 100$17.21
    101 or more$16.65

    the idea of this project is coming this site.

    http://99mpg.com/projectcars/mikesinsight/
    http://99mpg.com/ProjectCars/ewheelforanyvehicl

    this guys like about the same kind of brushed motor for his insight. the 1st gen insight is super light. it is less than 2000 lb. he is able to use 10 Hp to move the car in pure EV mode.

    my first design was E-trailer and all the battery will be on the trailer, but it will affect the handling a lot since you a towing a 500 lb trailer. the E-Wheel design is much better and you can park the car like normal. the vehicle will be only about 20 inch longer. the only problem is making sure the tire has good traction. the motor is not very heavy and may need a pair of air cylinder to push the tire down on the road.
     
    #21 formula, Nov 11, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
  2. formula

    formula Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    320
    32
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    I just found some interesting info.

    have anyone try to use ultracapacitor and battery together to power a EV?

    battery provide energy. ultracapacitor provide the boost energy when accelerate
     
    #22 formula, Nov 12, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2014
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,762
    48,970
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    is this a pipe dream thread?:cool:
     
    #23 bisco, Nov 12, 2014
  4. formula

    formula Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    320
    32
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    may be. E assist wheel project
     
    #24 formula, Nov 13, 2014
  5. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    2,076
    523
    5
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    I would step back and consider some important questions.

    - What are your goals?
    - What resources do you have available? (time, skills, financial)
    - What can you do with what you have to create the most impact toward those goals?
    - What is the best platform to do that work?

    My interest in this area really began in ~2004. I was really gung ho about doing an EV conversion, and put a lot of time and effort into that path. My goals were primarily to reduce my own environmental impact and to empower others to do the same to multiply that impact. I eventually came to the conclusion that plug-in hybrids were going to have the greatest near term potential impact, and that becoming a 2 Prius household was going to yield the biggest bang for the buck in terms of reducing our own environmental impact and supporting an environmentally significant emerging technology. At the time I didn't have the financial resources to also do my own plugin conversion, so I put my time and engineering skills into supporting the open source CalCars project in any way I could in order to help advance the technology, acceptance and viability of PHEVs. I was a _very_ small part of that work, but IMHO its impact in paving the way for commercial adoption was substantial.

    Several years later, I had the financial opportunity to do a plugin conversion but at that point there wasn't as much opportunity for that work to further the PHEV cause (with viable commercial conversions available and the PiP and Volt on the near horizon) and so decided instead to commit those resources to a DIY 5.5kW Solar PV system.

    Now once again I may be looking at a financial opportunity to go plug-in, but the landscape has continued to evolve. I do think there is an opportunity for an affordable PHEV upgrade path to the large number of second hand hybrids now available on the market. The growing number of pure BEV options on the market is also an emerging technology trend I would like to support. Additionally I think there is significant opportunity to impact public, political and commercial acceptance of that technology.

    At the moment I am personally split several ways, and haven't decided where to go next.

    1) I would very much like to see an affordable PHEV conversion developed, maybe in the $2-3k range. This could become an enabler to folks purchasing used hybrids in the $8-12k range to make the jump to PHEV. Particularly if it provided a hybrid battery replacement option, which can already cost $2-3k and is a cost folks in this market space may already be facing. IMHO further development of PHEV conversions targeting new hybrids doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the increasing availability of new PHEVs at fairly reasonable incremental costs in the new car market. Its pretty tough to create an aftermarket solution that is competitive with the economies of scale the larger manufacturers can achieve, even when their profit margins are taken into account.

    2) The growing number of used / wrecked hybrids and BEVs available may provide a substantial opportunity for creative reuse on a scale that could have a significant impact. Used motors, batteries, etc from mass production vehicles such as the Nissan Leaf could provide a stream of parts for PHEV and BEV conversions at a substantial saving relative to those available new to the small volume converter. The biggest obstacle here seems to be not so much electro/mechanical, but a need for development of control systems to interface with and repurpose these proprietary "closed ecosystem" components. There should be no reason these control systems can't be cracked and modified in the same way performance modders have been hacking and retuning complex proprietary control systems in gasoline powered performance vehicles for some time.

    3) There still seems to be a significant public perception problem with EVs that they either have to be boring or very expensive. The above mentioned supply of used commercial PHEV/BEV parts could provide an opportunity for projects that directly challenge that perception. For example, transplanting the 80kW Leaf drive system from its rather porky 3700 lb donor into a <2000 lb aerodynamic performance car could probably a lot of fun on a pretty reasonable budget :) Electric motorcycles are another place I've been exploring for considerable EV driving fun per dollar opportunities...

    At least those are my thoughts at the moment.

    So what are you trying to achieve?

    Rob
     
    #25 miscrms, Nov 13, 2014
  6. formula

    formula Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    320
    32
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    thanks for sharing your experience.

    this project is a experiment. I am trying to keep the cost as low as possible so more people can afford it.
    if the project become successful, it will also support all companies that is making parts for EV conversion.

    Some people convert they vehicle to pure EV, but it requires a lot of skill and it is not a easy project for many people.
    those project usually use vehicle that doesn't run or has old power train. rarely see people take out a 20k miles engine and convert it to EV.

    Some people buy a used Hybrid, that is a good thing. more on the road the better. if all the light duty vehicle is hybrid, the gas price may drop 40%.

    Some people buy a New Hybrid, that is even better because it support the manufacturers.

    Some people buy EV like leaf, Tesla or Volt, that is a good start. we should see more and more on the road.

    all these people are only a few% of the market. My project is focusing on other 95% of the people.
    Some people will not keep their vehicle for many years, if they buy a new hybrid, it will be harder to resell when they want to buy a new vehicle couple years later. when they sell the hybrid, they need to wait for someone who are looking for a hybrid.

    the advantage of the E-Wheel is it can be easily remove from one vehicle to another vehicle and any vehicle can be a hybrid. if you want to resell the vehicle, you can just take out the E-Wheel which just mount on the tow hitch. removing the battery pack is also easy, they could be on the E-wheel or in the trunk.

    installing this E-Wheel on vehicle is easy, all you need is a tow hitch and it cost less than $200 for most vehicle .

    My goal is to make this Hybrid W-wheel kit

    1) affordable keep it less than $3000 ($3000-5000 if want more battery for more range)
    2) easy to install . more like plug and play. if someone interested to make them and sell it.
    3) pay back the cost over time. easily pay back the cost if save $3 a day on gas for commuting. $90 a month $1080 a year 3 year will save $3000. more charge the quicker you get your money back.
    4) No change to the vehicle OEM system, take it off, and you can sell the vehicle like another car. no one want to buy a modified used vehicle that has bunch of wires and battery in the trunk. some people don't even know gas car need battery to run.


    if you are driving a hybrid,the pay back time will be much longer since it has very high MPG already.
    if you are driving a older sedan and get about 20-25 MPG in city, the payback time will be much shorter.



    after more research of the parts I need.

    I found a motor that will be powerful enough for this project and cost is not that high compare to other EV conversion motor.

    Motenergy ME1002 DC Series Wound Motor 48-144 VDC 26 kW 35 hp cont / 63 kW 85 hp pk
    $1350

    it can run from 48 to 144V DC. not enough for highway speed, still ok to drive around town. for smaller vehicle 72 or 96V will be enough, for bigger vehicle, it can go up to 144V system.

    lead acid battery = NO too heavy if want enough Amp and Volt.

    LiFePO4 Batteries = 12.8V 40Ah (512Wh, 10C Rate) $240
    96V need 8 pack.
    144V need 12 pack

    depends on each person commuting, you can add more pack for longer EV distance.
     
    #26 formula, Nov 14, 2014
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 2