Any Problems Using A PiP For A Mobile Amateur Radio Station?

mmmmm usually. That'd still be about 300 watts below FCC's legal limit. Not that some folks don't illegally run 2kw - 3kw amplifiers .... yes ... even mobile. You've seen them .... mobile antenna farms?



The only thing this guy is missing is a discone - a log periodic, and a screwdriver antenna.

But yea ... even on a prius - they're out there. WAY out there. As Forrest Gump used to say, "power is as power does". Most folks typically only have a 2 meter/440 transceiver though - and typically they'll only pull 4 or 5 amps. No big deal.
That said, many folks now days are just using all-star and/or the IRLP .... these formats now run through aps on smart phones. So in that case, your phone is only putting out a few milliwatts . There are even mobile nodes you can run from your lap top or note book. Certainly with those techniques, there's no worry about killing batteries. Just saying ... it's made pretty simple.
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Being a Ham since 1972 and also an Electrical Engineer and also a PIP owner, I would be terrified of putting anything more than a 5 -10 watt amplifier into an electric car. There are these Electrical Magnetic fields close to the antennas and they will induce voltage into the devices depending on where they are located and their size and how well they are isolated from RFI.

Engineering is a tradeoff of one problem versus another, and if you do not have the training, time and tools to do the analysis then don't try...Cars are already getting less reliable because of the electronics in them and adding a lot of EM radiation close to them is not a good idea..To add to this...the airlines restricted cell phones for a long time because of fears of RFI getting into the plane sytems..heck most of the computers used fiber optics to send signals down them and or coax with ground shielding. It took an army of well trained engineers a long time to figure out this is safe. Now, you are asking about using a lot more power, alot closer to a lot more electronics....heck if you have the money for lots of repairs and do not worry about reliability of your car, then go for it, if not, I stay with my initial guess and keep the power down real low...

Also people might say they have installed a system and it works. What does works mean. If its HF how much noise are they willing to tolerate from the high voltage converter in the PIP and still says it works. Have there been enough installed and run and at what frequencies and power levels to ascertain the reliability effects to the vehicle ? You know you can couple the RFI back into the computer chips, the chips could be shunting the power to ground and over time there could be an electro migration or oxide break down issue..

To truly answer this question you would have to run experiments, pull out the oscilloscope and measure the internal voltages. Then you would have to gather the reliability data..Once again, it is truly an engineering problem

PS what did they say on the ARRL forum pages? They are the guys who would really know...

 

I agree the Gen 2 Prius was an RFI nightmare. Over time, my 2004 went from having crystal clear AM reception to almost unusual due to hash/RFI across the AM band. (Over time meaning about seven years.)

My only point is that conclusions about the PiP based on Gen 2 anecdotes may not be valid.

 

So, my guess about noise was correct .....

how if you do FM at a high voltage are you going to hurt the electronics in the PIP? He really did not answer that...

Jack

 

the "army of well trained engineers (taking) along time to figure out this" have taken your advice. It's called the E-3 AWACS. Millions & millions of miles proven that you can operate with tons of high power electronics that can also transmit enough watts to take out radar from hundreds of miles away.



So - yes it's very do-able. There have been charts made up for decades, created specifically to notify & prevent damage to equipment, injury to flesh, and or death to either, based on time & distance of exposure, power, frequency, shielding, grounding, etc. Problem is, most won't bother to read up on possible "what-if's", or obtain a knowledgeable source. In stead, we play the odds - and just ask on a car blog. But hey . . . . we typically carry 8 or more gallons of liquid explosive on our ride. That's playing the odds too.
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Hill...Yes, it can be engineered.....but who is going to do the engineering work, or are you just counting on luck...

 

Luck? no no no .... think of it as 'experimenting'.

I noticed your comment a few posts above, regarding '72 as your entry into the world of amateur radio. BAAHH. You're just a baby



but yea - several of us prius amateurs have been around almost since the days of Marconi. But who wants to brag about being a fossil ...
Speaking of prius hams ... here's one of the several threads on amateur radio posted on PC;

Amateur Radio (Ham Radio) Operators on this forum? | PriusChat

I note it got moved over from it's original forum to FHOP over the years. PiP folk are lucky - this thread hasn't been demoted to FHOP yet. (knock on wood). But back to the question .... 'who is going to do the [] work'. Again ... it's already been done - thanks to our g'ubment - with its endless supply of paper money;



so the know-how is there ... even for the Prius ... even for the gen II. Example - one of the prius folks who showed up at one of the local ham radio day events running 100 watts;



If you don't know what you're doing ... ask a ham that's already doing what you want to do. There ARE several modern cars (besides our Lexus SUV hybrid) with the somewhat 'RF-delicate' canbus on board. But if you use properly shielded LMR 400 in stead of chintzy RG8 - then you're well on your way to preventing stray RF out of your transceiver.

btw - back in the day - prior to the popularity of the prius, my Kenwood 2000 and Hi-Q screwdriver were mounted on our Explorer;



It's a HOOT - mobile transmitting on 160 during a skip cycle ... folks don't believe you
btw, one of my pride & joys was machining the stainless mount thru the bumper for my screwdriver antenna. Here's a close up shot;



Bottom line - it's no more difficult or easy to properly shield a transceiver in a PiP - or a standard hybrid, or an EV, than it is in any other modern canbus equipped car. And if you're using less than 50 watts, it's really a non-issue. Think about it. Regardless of whether it's a Kenwood or ICOM - vertex or whatever, the manufacturer knowing the mobile transceiver is likely going to end up in a car - will be libel if their radio fries your car's electronics. That's the nature of our manufacturing responsibility. How do I know ... my CA bar license is # 172147

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why hill, i do believe you're positively giddy.

 

+1 +1

That was an EXCELENT read! when you think about how many fleet taxi cabs that Prius are used for - it makes sense that Toyota would be concerned about the compatibility of mobile transceivers in their vehicles. - whether it be a Japanese delivery truck, or a u.s. PiP.
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