Should illegal immigrants be allowed to stay?

It would be nice If Mexico would agree to become 51st State of the United States.
That would solve the problem.

 

The US of A Congressional an Executive branches are, of course, the real culprits here. Ignoring (for the most part) laws already on the books and pretending the problem of illegals can be kicked down the road for others to wrestle with. The INS has always been a joke; underfunded and inept. Move along folks, nothing to see here.

Step 1. SECURE the freakin' border. Really secure it. (fat chance)

Step 2. Test the simplest enforcement proposed in the stalled Senate bill; evict illegals who have been here less than 2 years so they can apply for re-entry. Can you say "false document bonanza"?

After the foolishness of the simplest aspect of the enforcement/amnesty plan is proven to be a joke, maybe Congress may actually have benefitted from a reality check.

The illegals aren't going anywhere soon. Congress isn't going to be any less like Basil in a Fawlty Towers episode either.

So I say secure the borders (walls, pungee sticks, whatever), then give 'em all amnesty (er...guestship), document 'em, and then require ALL employers to hire only citizens or documented GUESTS! To close the net on those who slip thru the 'airtight' :blink: border.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Denny_A @ Apr 10 2006, 08:06 PM) [snapback]237875[/snapback]</div>

I think you're on the right track. Most people would, I think, be comfortable with some kind of temporary guest worker program or even an amnesty program providing a permanent resident status or citizenship IF the border enforcement was done first.

I would propose this:

1. Make border enforcement a top priority, with the proposed fence, high tech "virtual fence" stuff, etc. Start the fence in the most remote areas along the Arizona, NM and TX boarders to try and stem the flow of people across the most dangerous terrain. Then, continue to the rest of the border. Return all people found crossing the border promptly. While you can never really seal off the border, active enforcement and physical barriers will cut back on the illegal flow greatly.

2. Accellerate deportation for undocumented aliens who commit felonies.

Then, and only then:

3. Establish a program for the undocumented aliens now living "underground" for them to obtain resident status, especially if they have American citizen children or own property, are married to an American, have been in country for more than a year, and are working. A fine for the civil violation of being here "illegally" might be justified, just as it is for other civil infractions, such as speeding tickets.

4. Aliens who come forward can apply for immigration status and eventual American citizenship "in line" behind the citizens of their country who are applying for it legally. Once we know the total number of applicants, we have to make a decision about allowing more of that nationality in, or pushing out the date for new applicants until the backlog is gone.

5. Realize that at least our immigrant labor force has the same cultural values we do; we do not face the problem France has with a large Muslim immigrant population. Hispanics and Canadians share our values and basic culture, as they are also descended from the white European conquerors

 

severely punish the business/people who hire illegals.

tax credits for people who reports each business/people who hire illegals. May be $100 each case?

If congress really allows illegals to become citizens or even PR, I would send my relatives from other part of the world to Mexico and cross the border instead of wait for a decade for their family-sponsored immigration visa.

 

The immigration issue is just the administration's latest media distraction from the real issue (it's failing policy in the middle east). Imbush peach now!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SirGreen @ Apr 10 2006, 10:18 PM) [snapback]237854[/snapback]</div>

If illegal aliens are made citizens and given the right to vote, it's likely that California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas will become the 32nd, 33rd, 34th, and 35th states in Mexico.

 

Aside from deciding the best course of action, which is a valid and necessary preliminary to taking action, how would an exile take place? How would 12 million people be deported? How are they to be identified? Who will take the place of all those workers? Is the militia going to search house to house? I fully agree that laws should either be enforced or dropped, but the practicalities of this issue would seem to outweigh the moral and legal considerations.

 

A freind of mine sent me this in an email & I thought it might be fitting in this thread..

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we
are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority
of Americans.

However...... the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct! " crowd began complaining about
the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to ! America.
Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants.

However, there are a few things that those
who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a
multicultural community
has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans......

we have our own culture, our
own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.


We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language.
Therefore, if you wish to become part
of our society, learn the language!

"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan.. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women.......on Christian principles.............
founded this nation..... and this is clearly documented.
It is certainly appropriate to display it
on the walls of our schools.
If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as
your new home.........because
God is part of our culture.

If Stars and Stripes offend you, or
you don't like Uncle Sam, then you
should seriously consider a move
to another part of this planet.
We are happy with our culture and have
no desire to change, and we really
don't care how you did things where
you came from.
This is OUR COUNTRY,
our land, and our lifestyle.
Our First Amendment gives every citizen the
right to express his opinion and we
will allow you every opportunity to do so!
But once you are done complaining....... whining...... and griping....... about our flag.......
our pledge...... our national motto........or our
way of life....I highly encourage you to
take advantage of one other Great American Freedom......

THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

And no I didnt write it so

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Apr 11 2006, 03:57 PM) [snapback]238143[/snapback]</div>

It would be as bad as tring to deport all the pot smokers.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Apr 7 2006, 12:25 PM) [snapback]236378[/snapback]</div>

Before the Dot Com crash I knew of Canadians who went through almost the same hoops to go to America. Most of them moved back to Canada after the crash.

I imagine you are highly qualified and have a responsible position.

As far as the Mexicans crossing the border and working in fields, why aren't Americans doing those jobs? Too lazy? Would rather sit on their fat nice person and collect Welfare? So don't be surprised to find Mexicans or other foreign nationals eager to take those jobs

 

One at a time. But we must start somewhere. Giving amnesty assures that the current wave of "guests" will shortly be replaced with another wave of illegals that will work for a lower wage.

Start at the local police stations. If illegal and you break a law, out you go. You might be surprised how many traffic stops are made and the driver is cited with "driving without a valid license" and then let go. Watch your local newspapers for the district court summaries; in my paper a half dozen a week are simply fined and released. The number of bench warrants for failure to appear is double that number.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Apr 11 2006, 02:57 PM) [snapback]238144[/snapback]</div>

And how many immigrants you know of that whine and gripe about our flag, pledge etc.?
Almost all immigrants follow a pattern: first generation learns broken English, second generation is bilingual, but dominant in English, 3rd generation is effectively illiterate in the grandparents language. It happened in my German family, it happened with Italians (both groups were discriminated against when they arrived in large numbers too), Poles etc. It's happening now with the Hispanics. The difference is, we're currently seeing more of the first generation in the Hispanic migration.

My wife is an immigrant, so I spend quite a bit of time with immigrant families, and I see this happening in their families. I wouldn't get bent out of shape about immigrants not fitting in. About the Christian thing - most Hispanics and eastern Europeans are more devout Christians than the average American. That still doesn't make it okay to permanently display Christian messages in a public school. Separation of church and state is a separation.

The U.S. has benefitted greatly from immigration over the years. Think about it - the most ambitious and motivated are the ones that leave their families and villages and come here to work and build new ideas and new communities. Often they don't mind starting at the bottom of the totem pole if it means a positive change for their family. Americans already have a high standard of living, so who wants to spend a lot of time in a job that probably won't go anywhere and doesn't let you buy fancy shoes, DVDs and an iPod?

The problem with immigration is that they're effectively punishing those who follow the rules. The reason we have so many illegals is we're rightly worried about giving people temporary visas, because we know they'll overstay them. We can't track them adequately and so they aren't deported or encouraged to go back and reapply. But because we aren't giving enough visas to cheap workers, then there's a huge unmet need for cheap labor which can only be filled illegally. If we were to crack down for real on immigration, our CPI (Consumer Price Index) would skyrocket as people would demand higher wages for washing dishes, picking strawberries, stocking shelves, etc. There would a significant ripple effect thru our economy as inflation hits. For us rich Americans, illegal immigrants are the next best thing to slavery, and stopping that suddenly would be a big problem for all of us.

The proposed bill wouldn't solve anything going forward, just allow the status quo to continue, but under more legal guidance. And let some formerly illegal immigrants visit their home countries again and be assured they could return to their jobs. There's no easy answer to this.

nerfer

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tleonhar @ Apr 10 2006, 07:07 PM) [snapback]237849[/snapback]</div>

My wife was born in Manila, as were her parents. THEIR parents (wifes grandparents) came to the Philippines from China. So, she is chinese from the Philippines. Talk about immigration... B)

 

It's not going to happen...

If they start loading up families of illegal immigrants it will be all over TV showing kids screaming and crying as their parents are hauled away in cuffs and loaded on buses and such...

Visions of nazi Germany with the Jews being loaded on the trains...

People would be outraged, mass strikes and walkouts, the economy destroyed, etc...

They'd be best-off to let the whole proposal die, but I never give Republicans the benefit of the doubt when it comes to making an intelligent decision.

 

Here's an interesting take on the immigration kerfuffle!

Choose Your Gas Mask: An Immigration Policy Quiz!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tleonhar @ Apr 10 2006, 07:07 PM) [snapback]237849[/snapback]</div>

My wife grew up and went to school in Manila. I hope to be able to visit soon, as her parents and one of her brothers still live there. B)

She immigrated...legally. She (and I) have problems with illegal immigration...our country needs to be able to know who is coming in to this country.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finally_got_one @ May 1 2006, 05:06 PM) [snapback]248171[/snapback]</div>

Exactly. And most illegal immigrants would probably agree with you - they'd also prefer to be here legally, but it's just really difficult to do that in recent decades. My ancestors came over without visa or passport, but back then it was legal.

Think of immigration control as a dam, and a culvert being the legal entry. Too much demand for workers to fit thru the culvert and they start going over the spillway (illegally). America sees all these immigrants coming in and our answer is to make the culvert smaller. Hello! That makes more people go over the spillway!

We should be granting many more visas to satisfy the job market and allow more students/tourists, but then do followup checks on everyone who didn't clock out in time. Question is, how do we track people without too much invasion of privacy, particularly for native citizens who would resent it? It's a big country to hide in, especially if you use a fake name and live in a friend's house.

This issue will be around for a long time, I'm afraid.