Parents Protest Gay Fairytale for 2nd Graders...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 20 2006, 05:06 PM) [snapback]242794[/snapback]</div>

And do you think that this is true for gay men and women? Do you believe that the "hard-wiring" is the same for everyone (i.e. man likes woman; woman likes man), or do you think that some people are wired differently?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 20 2006, 05:35 PM) [snapback]242811[/snapback]</div>

OK. What's you're definition of "mainstream"? Something that 51% of the population does? If that's your definition, then I agree homosexuality is not mainstream. But do you really think that the goal of the teacher was to "mainstream" homosexuality? It seems to me that he was saying that this is a way that some people live. Why must we only talk about things that "mainstream" society does? Should we only talk about divorce, since that's how most marraiges end? The population of Jews in the US is under 5%. Does this mean that we should prevent schools from talking about Judism when they talk about religions?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 20 2006, 02:35 PM) [snapback]242811[/snapback]</div>

Squid - I think you may not have thoroughly read your source... the FRC article is one that claims that the 10% figure is a "myth" and quotes studies that peg the number at well under 5%. That's why offense was taken... The FRC likes to tout numbers from the low end (like 1%) and (if you really want to get into the details) uses bogus studies or misquotes legit studies.

The fact is, real exit poll numbers and real census numbers put things higher. The majority of peer-reviewed scientific studies puts things higher than what the FRC likes to believe. The FRC also likes to conflate actual sex acts with orientation. If you haven't had sex with a partner in a few months, are you no longer heterosexual? If you're a virgin man who wants to have sex with a woman, are you not a heterosexual if you haven't "done it" yet? The FRC likes that kind of logic.

- Bob R.

 

oh man.

look. the book is based upon a kid's world. the complexities of sexual being are not commonplace in the second grade. the idea of eternal damnation and hellfire (for you religious nuts) has not yet surfaced in these kids.

you know what kids do? they observe. and they point out things they notice that are different, and they want to know why. it's part of the natural inquisitiveness of childhood development. it's something that continues through life. it's what my phd thesis is all about for crying out loud. differences, and some kind of explanation for them.

so to explain this in a kid's language, where all these complex concepts do not exist... why is this such a bad thing? to say that two boys might choose to share their life rather than a boy and a girl, says nothing regarding the mechanics of the physical relationship or whatever legal/social/religious consequences that exist or are perceived to exist.

why is this so wrong? kids are going to notice what they see as two boys holding hands like mommy and daddy do. and they're going to ask. what do you do- ignore them? tell them they'll understand "when they're older?"

with inquiring kids, it's best to answer as truthfully as you can in the terms of their world.

cripes, i'm glad i'm not a parent yet.

 

I am concerned that this conversation has the potential to devolve into a flame war which won't do us any good. That's why I'd like to transition this discussion from the educational system to one of vehicle dynamics. The Prius is clearly a gay car. Thank you for your attention.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 20 2006, 01:11 PM) [snapback]242770[/snapback]</div>

No one knows. You can only SUSPECT, based on how many have come out of the closet.

I'd guess somewhere between 15-25%, including bisexuals, which so far seems to be much more common among females.

Irrelevant, in any case. Getting pretty "mainstream", too, thanks to attention-getting events such as parades, and smart, relentless media use.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 20 2006, 03:06 PM) [snapback]242831[/snapback]</div>

Squid - Not to belabour the point, but I don't disagree with you. I think 5% is a reasonable estimate for a survey to come up with for a variety of reasons. The FRC doesn't even accept 5%. That's why some got offended by using the FRC as a reference, especially since their report uses loaded language like "myth" and likes to quote the moonie Washington Times.

- Bob R.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Apr 20 2006, 05:58 PM) [snapback]242826[/snapback]</div>

Nice demonstration of "tolerance" Galaxee. I just love how in the other threads, everyone tries to paint anyone who believes in the Bible as "intolerant", and yet the atheists are the ones doing the name calling, verbal chastizing, and seathing with hatred and intolerance. Hmmm.....
BTW, my opinion, in case you couldn't guess: This kind of "lesson" does NOT belong in our schools, especially elementary school. The kids are there for the 3 R's, not to have their innocence robbed. There are many things that EVEN I would like to remain naive about:
1 Corinthians 14:20 - "Brothers, do not become young children in powers of understanding, but be babes as to badness; yet become full-grown in powers of understanding"

 

kids see that their mom and dad

well i should say in stable families

kids see that their mom and dad are very close friends. and they have best friends of their own, so they might associate the two.

at age 7 it is impossible to be attracted to someone on that kind of level, and really i don't think it would mean anything to see them staging a mock wedding.

sure i'd think to myself "holy crap" as i'd guess most people would. but after a while i'd come to the realization that it is meaningless. just as meaningless as the mock wedding i myself staged with the guy next door who ended up being the DJ at my real wedding. as meaningless as the times i thought i'd take over the family farm and invite my best female friend to run it with me. kids think things that do not apply to the real world. to assume it all does apply to the real world is making a mistake.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Apr 20 2006, 06:27 PM) [snapback]242846[/snapback]</div>

just one picky thing here- you're assuming i'm an atheist. so the context of this was:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Apr 20 2006, 05:58 PM) [snapback]242826[/snapback]</div>

and i meant it as a hyperbole. just as "eternal damnation and hellfire" is a hyperbole to scare people into not doing stupid stuff.

i could have used the word "folks" instead of "nuts" but in this thread i'm seeing some nutty justification from biblical passages.

was i aware i was going to get nailed on that one within a half hour? oh yes. and i said it anyway.

this is not one of the religion debate threads. i'm ending this line of discussion now.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Apr 20 2006, 03:27 PM) [snapback]242846[/snapback]</div>

Galaxee's quip about "religious nuts" was clearly in the context of "eternal damnation and hellfire" and you know it.

I've had to wade through this thread with multiple people (not Squid) comparing gay people to the most vile behaviors such as child molestation. I think you can put up with someone calling out the "religious nuts" who actually believe that God would burn someone to a crisp forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever.

There are plenty of Bible-believers who are not nuts (why, some of my best gay friends are Bible-believers, not that there's anything wrong with that...) There are also plenty of Christian churches which will perform gay weddings. Not hard to find some.

If you believe that a 2nd grader when confronted with the idea that two men might be married will become morally corrupted and subject to eternal hellfire and damnation, well, you're a bit of a religious nut.

And if you think quoting directly from the Bible in a discussion of what to teach and when to teach it in our _secular_ _public_ schools is going to help, well, you're a bit of a religious nut.

Here's some friendly advice:

If your kid comes home and says they saw a book in class where two men got married, say to them: "Yes, a very small number of men want to marry other men. Our God says in the Bible that this is wrong. We shouldn't hate these people, but what they are doing is wrong according to our beliefs. When you are ready, I will explain in more detail. For now, be nice to any kids you know with two dads at school, but understand we do not feel this is appropriate for our own children."

Is that so hard? Is it such a nightmare? Let the schools teach in the context of secular life, and you can still guide your own children according to your own religious values.

- Bob R.

 

Wow homosexuality, that’s right up there with horse sex. Yuck!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 20 2006, 06:15 PM) [snapback]242836[/snapback]</div>

Then, I'd say your homophobic. I'm not trying to use that word in an inflamitory way, but in the literal sense of the word: you're scared of gay people. Or, more fairly, you think that your son being gay is a "bad thing." I can totally honestly say that I don't feel that way. However, I think there are a lot of very well-meaning, kind, reasonable people that do feel that way. I don't know why that is, but, personally, I think it's something that should change. I think that just because someone has something about them that is different doesn't mean that they shouldn't be accepted as a part of mainstream society. That's why I support this teacher reading this book and educating the students as to the different types of relationships out there.

 

I guess I'm a homophobic. there I said it. Im out og the closet.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SirGreen @ Apr 20 2006, 03:54 PM) [snapback]242852[/snapback]</div>

See what I mean? That's the kind of BS that gay people have to put up with on a daily basis. That's why we're not as thin-skinned as the garden variety "religious nut".

A question for SirGreen: Do you agree with Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum that gay marriage is like man-on-dog sex, or do you disagree and think it is more like horse sex, as you have stated? For the purposes of our anonymous survey, please tell us how much time each day you spend thinking about dog sex and/or horse sex. Thank you.

- Bob R.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SirGreen @ Apr 20 2006, 05:54 PM) [snapback]242852[/snapback]</div>

Horses have sex, too, ya know! Got a problem with that?

I assume everyone is up to date with the latest definition of santorum?

 

Sorry but its all so Queer.